Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
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DetroiTug
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Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by DetroiTug »

I ordered some oil about a week ago and talked with Mr Petitjean there about oil types and whether to oil or not and how much.

From the conversation - his "opinions" as he referred to them :) : (He said he was old enough to have some now)

Any of their oils can be used as steam cylinder oil in non-condensing systems. Although the Sapon-Med types are far superior with rust inhibiting tallow, and run the 680 if your oiler will handle it, as it is the best and is intended for super heated systems.

None of the steam cylinder oils containing tallow should be used in a condensing system as animal fats are nearly impossible to remove from the condensate and will find their way back to the boiler. This includes either of the Sapon-Med oils they sell. He suggests using only the Pin Bearing and Journal oils, or "pure" oils for steam cylinder lubrication, as they can be fully separated from the water.

On whether or not to oil: He says on every engine there should be a means of administering oil to the engine, either hydrostatically or pumped. The decision on how much to oil whether continually or intermittently lies with the operator, and "the engine will let you know". All new engines should be supplied oil continually or at least frequently at first to prevent "gaulding" the cylinder(s). This allows the rings to seat properly and the cylinder to form a hard glaze, then oil admission can be tapered off if the operator wishes. However, there are still going to be instances where the engine needs a shot of oil. Essentially "If it's squeaking, it needs oil".

-Ron
JonRiley56
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by JonRiley56 »

Hey Ron,

I need to get some oil that is suitable for a condensing system. I am having trouble finding a source. Can you point me in the right direction ?

jon
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by DetroiTug »

From what I understand, some of the condensing steamcar folk run Mobil1 synthetic gear oil. Grainger sells it. And as I have it above, the Green Velvet PB&J for condensing systems as well.

-Ron
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by fredrosse »

"He suggests using only the Pin Bearing and Journal oils, or "pure" oils for steam cylinder lubrication, as they can be fully separated from the water." I agree, as compounded oils cannot be separated from water, unless you boil the water away, and re-boiling our condensate, then re-condensing the steam would not be something that makes sense for our steamboats. You would need another fired boiler, and all of the separated oil would then be deposited (and baked on) on that boiler's metal surfaces. That is the only way I know of to remove compounded oil from an oil/water condensate mix.

Green Velvet sells a mineral oil to use in small steam plant condensing service, with a "Tacifier" additive to make it stick to steam washed surfaces much better than straight mineral oil. This oil is specifically formulated for condensate recovery (condensing steam plant) service. A good hotwell filtration system is needed to affect oil separation, and I am told that polyester "Oil-sorb" material works well.

Do any of us have direct experience with this?
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by JonRiley56 »

Hi All,

Ron talked to his steam car friends and they are using Mobil SHC634 ISO 460 Synthetic Oil. It is available from McMaster Carr and Grainger, with McMaster being cheaper.

The Green Velvet Non Compounded "Sapon" oils dont appear to be available in small quantities any more. The option from Green Velvet appears to be the PB&J 460. It is significantly more expensive than the Mobil material though. I dont thionk any of us recapture the oil for re-use, although I have seen a "cyclone separator" mentioned once or twice. The 460 is specifically not recommended for re-use.

Does anyone have any comparitive data on these two ? I noticed some of the oil companies using the ASTM D1401 water separation test which seemed useful for comparison. It basically measures how long it takes for the oil and water to separate after being "emulsified"

There is also a specialty oil from Mobil called Mobil Extra Hecla SuperCylinder Oil Mineral that looks like it would be perfect for us from the data sheets, but I cant find anywhere to buy it.

I am most likely going to run with the SHC634 unless someone comes up with a good reason not to. I like McMaster Carr.
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by fredrosse »

To get "Mobil Extra Hecla SuperCylinder Oil Mineral" I think you might need a time machine?
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by JonRiley56 »

I'll watch for one on Ebay.................. :D
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by johngriffiths »

In the UK Morris Lubricants supply non compounded mineral oils from 1000 grade down, I use 680 for cylinder lub and 220 for bearings, the 680 is removed from the hotwell by a cloths (jacket) lining foam available in huge quantities and at a low cost from a local cloth retailer.

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scrip ... roduct=407

I have no connection with them except as a pleased user.

JohnG
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by JonRiley56 »

Hi John,

Can I ask why you chose the 680 as opposed to the 460 ? I actually had found the Morris info last night. I hadnt had a chance to follow up yet to see if their US distributors are still around.

On a related question, how much oil should I expect to use ? I am running a simple 3x4 engine and am not super heating the steam.

jon
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Re: Green Velvet oil and Steam Engine lubrication

Post by JonRiley56 »

I found the US distributor for the Morris Sovereign Oil. It looks like our only option in the states is the Sovereign 1000.

http://www.steamcylinderoil.com/products.htm

$225 plus shipping................. for a 6.6 gallon can.

How long does 6.6 gallons last..........

jon

P.S. - I did find a place to by the Hecla Mobil oil.......evidently $1,000 for a 55 gal drum...... :D
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