ASME rated boilers

[RogerV]

This subject came up in the "sale and trade" topic, http://www.thesteamboatingforum.net/for ... f=10&t=700 but I thought it more appropriate to continue it here as I'm not talking about buying or selling.

My question is, aside from the all-important subject of safety, what other drawbacks are there for using a non-ASME rated boiler? I notice that Beckmann has a line of "standard" boilers as well as their "code" boilers. They do say that the standard boilers use ASME safety valves and other accessories, though. Plenty of people have built their own boilers, and they can't all have the requisite skills to build one to ASME standards, though there may be plans out there that conform to the standards.

Is this an issue for insurance companies? Do club rules say anything about it? Can a boiler be inspected by a state boiler inspector and given a pass or a fail grade?

And no, I'm not contemplating buying a boiler of any kind just yet. Nor am I considering building one... I could just put on black clothes and go for a walk on a dark freeway with a lot less trouble!

Thanks, guys.

[fredrosse]

Roger, perhaps this topic should be moved to "Technical - Engines & Boilers"

"Aside from the all-important subject of safety, what other drawbacks are there for using a non-ASME rated boiler? Is this an issue for insurance companies? Do club rules say anything about it? Can a boiler be inspected by a state boiler inspector and given a pass or a fail grade?"

The ASME Code has been developed over many years, and has rules that increase not only the safety of boilers, but the potential for long boiler life, easier maintenance, etc. But an ASME stamped boiler can be brought to ruin, or a shortened life through poor maintenance or improper operation just as is the case with non-code boilers. I do see plenty of poor practices in amiture boiler design and construction, and that can lead to trouble, usually in the form of benign leaks and extra maintenance costs, and sometimes downright dangerous.

In addition, if there is a growing legal tendency to require certified boiler design in our hobby, having an ASME Stamped Power Boiler will certainly be acceptable. Depending on what state you operate in, ASME Code boilers may be required, many states generally require ASME boilers, with special exceptions for hobby boilers. The US Coast Guard Rules do not require any boiler certification or design rules for steamboats under 40 feet in length, operating on the US waterways connected to the oceans. Here in Pennsylvania an ASME Code Stamp is required for all power boilers, but not required for hobby boilers, however an annual state inspection is required for all boilers. In Europa there is now in place strict rules for hobby boilers, and the USA might follow that course. Most hobby steamer Clubs, be it boating, small live steam locomotives, traction engines, etc. organize to inspect and approve boilers operating within their organizations, and most do not have ASME stamped boilers, however ASME stamped boilers are always favored by the inspectors. Some indicate that amiture designed boilers are time bombs waiting for an explosion, I generally do not share that view, but then I ride motorcycles too, and thus obviously don't care about life and limb.

In summary, the ASME Code boiler is accepted everywhere, now and in the future, provided it is in acceptable condition. Non-code boilers may be acceptable, but it is probably a good bet that they will become more regulated, especially if there are newsworthy accidents involving non-code boilers.

[RogerV]

Ooops... I thought I had put it in "Engines & Boilers." Sorry for the mixup. Can a moderator move it?

And thanks for your very helpful answer.

[marinesteam]

Roger, perhaps this topic should be moved to "Technical - Engines & Boilers"

The ASME Code has been developed over many years, and has rules that increase not only the safety of boilers, but the potential for long boiler life, easier maintenance, etc. But an ASME stamped boiler can be brought to ruin, or a shortened life through poor maintenance or improper operation just as is the case with non-code boilers. I do see plenty of poor practices in amiture boiler design and construction, and that can lead to trouble, usually in the form of benign leaks and extra maintenance costs, and sometimes downright dangerous.

In addition, if there is a growing legal tendency to require certified boiler design in our hobby, having an ASME Stamped Power Boiler will certainly be acceptable. Depending on what state you operate in, ASME Code boilers may be required, many states generally require ASME boilers, with special exceptions for hobby boilers. The US Coast Guard Rules do not require any boiler certification or design rules for steamboats under 40 feet in length, operating on the US waterways connected to the oceans. Here in Pennsylvania an ASME Code Stamp is required for all power boilers, but not required for hobby boilers, however an annual state inspection is required for all boilers. In Europa there is now in place strict rules for hobby boilers, and the USA might follow that course. Most hobby steamer Clubs, be it boating, small live steam locomotives, traction engines, etc. organize to inspect and approve boilers operating within their organizations, and most do not have ASME stamped boilers, however ASME stamped boilers are always favored by the inspectors. Some indicate that amiture designed boilers are time bombs waiting for an explosion, I generally do not share that view, but then I ride motorcycles too, and thus obviously don't care about life and limb.
.

Fred makes some good points though I'd like to clarify a bit.....I'm no expert, but this is what I have gleaned from my own research.

The term "hobby boiler" as used in code by most states is not defined by the use of the boiler. Meaning any boiler that is used by someone doing their hobby isn't a hobby boiler. In the states boilers are defined by size and pressure. Hobby or miniature boilers are limited to small boilers that may be found in engineering models usually of a size would not be suitable as motive power. The exact definition will be found in your state's code documentation. Here is Colorado's
definition: (Here they call them miniature boilers.) Even if you meet the shell size and volume limitation the pressure will be a limiting factor for "power" use.

1-7-1 Miniature boiler
A miniature boiler is any power boiler that does not exceed any of the following:
(a) 16 inches inside diameter of shell;
(b) Repealed May 15, 2007;
(c) Five cubic feet gross volume exclusive of casing and insulation;
(d) 100 psig maximum allowable working pressure.


Secondly, as Fred states, the ASME code has been developed over a long period and has much emperical knowledge to back it up. The code is the MINIMUM requirments needed to build a boiler that will be safe in service. ALL boilers need to be built to these rules. A boiler built following the code is not necessarily a code boiler however. To be a code boiler the boiler needs to have a verified design and be built by someone with verified qualifications . These are the "stamp holders" and their work is underwritten by insurance companies who have certified that the work being done meets the standard. The states have used the ASME code as a framework and many cite the ASME code in their laws that pertain to boilers.

The necessity of a needing a code boiler varies from state to state. In Colorado, ALL boilers apart from a few exceptions with low pressure and historic boilers must be registered with the inspector before being placed into service. I'm assuming that if a boiler does not have a code stamp you would have to prove that the boiler is built to code and is in servicable condition before the inspector will allow it to be fired. There is no way you will ever be covered under any insurance if you place a boiler into service and can not prove that it meets a minimum service standard. Having a stamp at least proves that the construction of the boiler is suitable and that leaves the operation portion which is seperate conversation.

I don't subscribe to the premise that boilers are time-bombs either. I do (as should everyone) have great respect for the amount of power that can be unleashed should something go wrong. Not following the path of those that have come before is asking for trouble. The ASME code is what maps out the path of those that have been sucessful. There is no excuse for underdesigning or cutting corners in construction or maintanence and operation. It's something that can not be tolerated, as the risk is way to great to ones life and limb and to the hobby as a whole.

Off my soapbox

Ken