Economizer tube material

[Mike Rometer]

Quote :I think hands down climbing equipment has the best documentation:
http://www.storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDev ... Icons.html

-CB

If you try to make something idiot-proof; nature will just provide you with a better idiot!

[cyberbadger]

In fact England, Scotland and Wales (I don't know about Ireland) never ever ran out of firewood: the stuff was harvested from short rotation coppices, and iron foundries etc. had vast areas of these, run on an entirely sustainable basis. However, the harvesting and transporting of such wood was expensive (as CB well knows now with Nyitra) and coal was both cheaper and in many cases easier to use. The usage cost of wood was the driver for more coal mining, and the better energy density of coal. English woodlands were and are, almost entirely hardwoods, which in turn are almost impossible to kill by cutting them down - unlike most conifers - and cutting them just stimulates faster growth next year, though they do have to be protected from browsing animals for a year or maybe two.

I don't know where you draw the line between virtually running out of one resource and actually running out. I know that the switch to coal often involved the accompanying increased human casualties from mining accidents. That seems less virtual to me.

BTW, Brilliant: The Evolution of Artificial Light by Jane Brox, is a good read. It has a first hand account of the practice of walking into a mine with a lit stick while preparing to drop to a lying position at any moment so the explosion would pass over you and not kill you.

-CB

[Mike Cole]

It's your choice Mr C-B, but are you really worried about efficiency in your steam related activities?

Well the aquisition, processing, and transportation of solid fuel has become a big chore. 300lbs for 4 hrs voyage took me 2-3 hrs to process+ and get on the boat.

It has made me appreciate first hand why the world switched to liquid fuel.

I think your countrymen had a problem with this a few centuries ago running out of trees to chop down...

When I started this enterprise, I didn't know I would have to be a plumber/fitter. It's obvious, but I underestimated. Now I realize I have to be a lumberjack.

-CB

I never realised how much you are burning. I am one of the few wood burners over in the UK. My plant consists of a SBA WTB1 boiler which is the smallest water tube in the range, but still with a grate around 16 inches by 10. 100psi. A ST 5a engine 2.25x2.25 single. And the hull is plywood 17foot 10 inch. I have never weighted how much wood I use in a days steaming but can not be more than 50- 80 lbs.

[barts]

I think your countrymen had a problem with this a few centuries ago running out of trees to chop down...

-CB

You should read Oliver Rackham on that topic (sadly, he's now permanently in the crypt of Corpus Christi chapel, as of two years ago). Oliver was a brilliant man in a quiet sort of way, and a superb ecologist, and he (quite rightly) had this thing about factoids.
He defined a factoid as something that somebody had claimed, then after 25 years it was quoted by an historian, and in another 25 years or whatever, a second historian quoted the first one. By that time the original "thing" was accepted by the unthinking majority as fact, regardless of whether it actually made sense when you investigated it thoroughly.

Fascinating. Thanks for mentioning this; I've learned several new things today in further reading.

For those who are curious, Professor Rackham's obit in the Independent is informative: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 76570.html

So while it's not accurate to say England ran out of large oak trees to build ships, it is perhaps accurate to say that no large English oak trees could be brought to the shipyards at a practical cost.

- Bart

[cyberbadger]

I never realised how much you are burning. I am one of the few wood burners over in the UK. My plant consists of a SBA WTB1 boiler which is the smallest water tube in the range, but still with a grate around 16 inches by 10. 100psi. A ST 5a engine 2.25x2.25 single. And the hull is plywood 17foot 10 inch. I have never weighted how much wood I use in a days steaming but can not be more than 50- 80 lbs.

Well. I knew going in that the Toledo would be a steam hog. It might help to make replacement piston valves. You reap what you sow I guess. The new nozzle allows the boiler to keep up and operate 150-200psi which is great - but I have so much heat going up and out that is not being captured. At least wood is free/cheap other then time.

Interested in hearing more figures of lbs wood/hour or lbs wood/mile from other steamers.

-CB

P.S.
Putting Nyitra's current Baseline here:

Nyitra: ~20 lbs hard wood/mile over 14 miles, 4mph cruise 3"+3"X4" 4500??? lbs
Reciproca: 1 lb/hardwood mile 1.5"&3"x2.5" Blackstaffe steeple compound 1100lbs weight, 6.4mph cruise [Source: Reciproca Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDv_J1RXTB4 ]

[barts]

As I noted earlier, Rainbow burns about 6 lbs/mile, and displaces ~4500 lbs. 3x5x4 compound, Scotch boiler,
no economizer, feedwater heater, 500 F stack temp at speed, so an economizer would improve efficiency somewhat.

- Bart

[cyberbadger]

I don't know, but I think Penberthy literature just might be trying to promote Penberthy injectors?? That would not be the first time that advertisements show strong bias toward their profit motives rather than logical thought. For example, some famous cigarette ads promoting smoking, as recommended by a DOCTOR, WTF!

Fair enough.

Sometimes I glorify and admire the craftsmanship and engineering of steam-era designs and companies. I know that in truth many of those companies were not actually good to their employees, the environment, or their customers. But I would hope the Penberthy instruction card would be correct - that's not an ad itself.

What's Margaret S get for fuel consumption Fred?

-CB

[TahoeSteam]

A 40 ft steamboat I know of did an experiment with hardwood about month ago... mind you she wasn't wide open...

40' steel tugboat hull
26,000lbs overall
100sqft "Worthington" watertube boiler with 50sqft of economizer
Approx 5sqft grate area
5+10×6" compound with conventional slide valves and ram feed pumps

200lbs of dry hardwood at 5mph (confirmed by gps) for 4 hours.

That's 10lbs/mile for a 26,000lb boat, albeit barely a little more than half hull speed.

[cyberbadger]

Well I feel like I am doing something very wrong when I'm using twice as much fuel as that 40 ft boat.

-CB

[Mike Cole]

Well I feel like I am doing something very wrong when I'm using twice as much fuel as that 40 ft boat.

-CB

Are you over firing? I use two types of wood . my main fuel, logs as big as i can fit say 3inch dia and then some much thinner wood. My boiler is problerly too big for the engine but i try to only add fuel when the presssure drops. if i leave it too much i can quicky start up a low fire by using the thin stuff.