The Steamboating Forum

Hi,

The photo shows recently recovered remains from an 1890s cargo ship that was used as a blockship during the First World War:



There's an anchor coming in from centre-left below which is an object with a rectangular face-plate.

A crew member on the barge carrying the remains said it was an "engine rocker". I've done some googling, but I don't know anything about ship engines and probably didn't use the right keywords, anyway I'm still none the wiser.

The crew member said the section above the anchor shank is the curved arch of the wreck's stern, with the vertical section on the right being the bottom of the keel above which (ie to the left) the rudder was once fixed.

The chap also said that other members of the crew thought the squat L-shaped item at top left may be the top of the rudder post (ie the rudder once lay between it and the bottom of the keel to the right).

Can anyone identify, or confirm, what the objects in the photo are, please? (especially the engine part, of course!).

Thanks

John Latter / Jorolat

Hello John ,

I'm not certain that I'm looking at the correct item but I can clearly see a conrod attached to a crosshead .
The rectangular plate just below the anchor shackle is the crosshead bearing , the other end of the rod would be attached to the big end .

Considering that they have been underwater (seawater I presume) for nearly 100 years they are well preserved but I would recommend a thorough fettling before you re-use it in an engine .

Regards Edward.

That is the connecting rod, cross head and pump lever.

The long side of the pump lever was attached with "links" to the cross head while the short side was attached with links to the reciprocating boiler feed, bilge and wet air pumps.

The cross head bearings look totally clapped out and a worn out ship would be the sensible choice to sink in a channel if one was so inclined.

Here's a link to an engine showing this...open the "GEBRÜDER SACHSENBERG" engine pictures at the bottom of the page.

On the first picture, it shows the pump links and lever attached to the crosshead

On the third picture, form the other side of the engine, you see the pump levers attached to the pumps.

http://www.prestonservices.co.uk/marine.htm

Dave

Thank you very much for your replies, Edward and Dave

With regard to the original photo I posted, the connecting rod and cross head are now easily identifiable, but I'm not sure which part is the "pump lever" - do you mean the long narrow "plates" lying either side of the conrod and connected to the outsides of the cross head? If so, I can't tell the difference between the long- and short-sided one.

I've studied the "GEBRÜDER SACHSENBERG" engine photos you refer to, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking at - if I pursue this any further, it looks like I may have to do a lot of reading before being able to write a caption to the original photo with any confidence.

On the other hand, I'm a lot further ahead than I was before seeing your replies!

In case anyone's interested:

The objects come from a First World War blockship called the "Spanish Prince" which was sunk in Dover Harbour in 1915.

The blockship is currently in the process of being removed and I've uploaded some photos of the vessels involved in the operation under a Spanish Prince tag.

This is part of the caption to the Panorama of the First World War Spanish Prince Wreck Site photo:

The "Spanish Prince" was built in 1894 by Charles Connell and Company at Glasgow with a tonnage of 6505grt, a length of 450ft, a beam of 52ft 2in and a service speed of 11 knots. She was launched on Wednesday, 6th June 1894, and completed in the following August as the "Knight Batchelor" for Greenshields, Cowie & Co. of Liverpool, a company whose history goes back to 1795.

Below is a sonar image of the wreck taken a few years ago - it was this photo that originally got me interested!



Charles Lightoller also has a connection with the Spanish Prince (he was second mate on the RMS Titanic).

John

The crosshead and connecting rod are nested right in between the pump levers ( at least I believe they are pump levers) one on either side with the pivot shaft connecting to two levers together.

What is the length of the connecting rod? The Spanish Prince would appear to have been pretty big.

Dave

mcandrew1894 wrote:The crosshead and connecting rod are nested right in between the pump levers ( at least I believe they are pump levers) one on either side with the pivot shaft connecting to two levers together.

Thanks for explaining which bit is which, Dave

What is the length of the connecting rod? The Spanish Prince would appear to have been pretty big.

Dave

I've just come back from the pier where the barge is and I would guess the conrod is about 7 feet long.

The Spanish Prince had "a tonnage of 6505grt, a length of 450ft, a beam of 52ft 2in and a service speed of 11 knots"

John

OK

Was she twin screw?...and was her horsepower about 1500 - 2000 HP?

If so that MIGHT be a conrod from one of her engines....if she's single screw, about the same HP as stated above...the conrods would be much bigger...

Here's a photo of a 750 BHP compound with a conrod about 7 feet long.......

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/ ... andme-.jpg

JMHO......

Dave

Hi Dave,

I found this entry on the TheShipsList website:

The KNIGHT BACHELOR was a cargo steamer built by C. Connell & Co, Glasgow (engines by Dunsmuir & Jackson, Glasgow) in 1894 for the Knight Steamship Co. She was a 6,394 gross ton ship, length 450ft x beam 52.2ft, one funnel, four masts, single screw and a speed of 11 knots.

Dunsmuir & Jackson may have gone out of business because I can't find any trace of a company website by that name.

For three years or so I've been taking photos of Dover, especially historical locations, and its very common to find "inaccuracies" when looking for info to put in a caption. Do you think that may be the case here - that the Knight Bachelor may have been twin-screw?

And thank you again for your interest

John

John Latter wrote:Hi Dave,

I found this entry on the TheShipsList website:

The KNIGHT BACHELOR was a cargo steamer built by C. Connell & Co, Glasgow (engines by Dunsmuir & Jackson, Glasgow) in 1894 for the Knight Steamship Co. She was a 6,394 gross ton ship, length 450ft x beam 52.2ft, one funnel, four masts, single screw and a speed of 11 knots.

Dunsmuir & Jackson may have gone out of business because I can't find any trace of a company website by that name.

For three years or so I've been taking photos of Dover, especially historical locations, and its very common to find "inaccuracies" when looking for info to put in a caption. Do you think that may be the case here - that the Knight Bachelor may have been twin-screw?

And thank you again for your interest

John

Hi John,

Difficult to say. I based my comments and frankly conjecture on a comparison of "Spanish Prince" to other contemporary ships. A noteable example being the John W. Brown, which is of contemporary design. She's a liberty ship and as such is about the size you have stated with a single screw. She has a 2000 HP triple expansion engine and a top speed in the same range as the "Black Prince", and I would venture to say that the conrods are bigger than 7 feet long....and no I haven't put a tape measure on them . If you do a youtube search you can see her engine in action.

Dave

Okey-doke, Dave. I'm just going offline and I'll have an opportunity to consider how much time I can spend on this before I next sign on - I think I may look up the YouTube video whatever I decide.

Thanks for helping

John