The Steamboating Forum

Hi everybody,

Two weeks ago, I've spotted on a Craig's-List-like site a gizmo sold as a "bronze priming pump" and priced 32.90 € (shipment included). Like any decent pump, it had a very nice lever. But it was a whistle, not a pump! So I bought it.

I gave it an over night pickle bath and a thorough cleaning. Here are a bunch of photos of the beast with a 30 cm caliper (the open jaws are 5 cm appart):

-> The exploded view:


-> The maker's mark:


-> The assembled whistle:


The maker's mark is not clear. I can't read for sure the first letter stamped on the lower bell. I guess it's "DELOULE", in Lyon, France. I found a society called DELOULE wich was in business in Lyon between the 2 WW, they mainly manufactured pumps.

The eagle eye among you may have notice that:
1. On the exploded pic, the lever was turned upside down and there is no gasket at all.
2. There's a compressed air nipple that fits the base of the whistle. => This is NOT a steam whistle. We'll discuss this point later.
3. The valve stem is scored, not toot badly but enough to leak air/steam when the whistle is blown.
4. The parts attaching the lever to the valve stem are not meant to work without creating a small bend. In fact, the second nut from the top has a hole larger than the stem to prevent the bend but it's not very effective.

-> This whistle is intended to be blown with compressed air. I want to use it on my future boat. I have a few ideas but I need your advice.

Regards,

Christophe

... Oh, and by the way, I have no compressor but good lungs: I blowed my whistle, it sounds quite good. Very surprised by the long lasting vibrations of the upper bell with but a sharp blow.

I have seen and repaired a few whistles similar to this one. Typically , but not always, a whistle that has a lever like this on was used on a horse drawn fire pumper.

Akitene wrote: 2. There's a compressed air nipple that fits the base of the whistle. => This is NOT a steam whistle. We'll discuss this point later.

Do you know more on this point? I have not seen an air whistle. You'll at least want a steam rated valve before this in line since it wasn't rated for steam - I always put one on anyways in case the valve in the whistle leaks and it's bothering me.

I made the mistake of not doing this with a steam siren and it stuck open. I had to call it a day, luckily that was only in my driveway with a stationary setup - but that could ruin your day on the water without an isolation valve of some sort.

Akitene wrote: This whistle is intended to be blown with compressed air. I want to use it on my future boat. I have a few ideas but I need your advice.

Christophe - so what do you need advice on?

Since the whistle is not made for steam it would be good if it was at least rated for the max allowable working pressure(MAWP) of your boiler. I have some antiques though on my boiler and I can see no real rating.

The valve on it may or may not work correctly under steam - hence you should for sure have an appropriately rated steam valve for isolation installed below it, in-line.

It won't sound the exact same for sure, they always sound different and I would usually say better sounding under steam typically then air.

Caution is certainly advised the first times you try it under steam.

-CB
http://nyitra.blogspot.com

Thank you for your advice, cyberbadger.

First of all, I'll make a cutaway drawing of the whistle:
1. I've got to verify if the thickness of the steam pressured parts is suitable for a MAWP of 10 bars / 145 PSI.
2. Then, if possible, I've got to determine how to place a stuffing gland on the valve stem, where it protrudes atop the whistle.

You're perfectly right, I'll place an isolation steam rated valve between the boiler and the whistle, to prevent the lever-activated stem valve from getting stuck open. This should not happen but the motto is "security first".

By the way, I do love your highly unconventionnal Nyitra project.

Akitene wrote:By the way, I do love your highly unconventionnal Nyitra project.

Thanks!

Well that's what I like about steam-boating as a hobby - you have many options and you can make your boat how you like it.

Nobody said it has to look historical. Nyitra is historical because of it's namesake my great grandfrather's steamboat Nyitra, and my Nyitra's 114 year old Toledo Engine.

But it's not trying to recreate anything per se.

-CB

Hi Christophe

I bought, at an SBA auction, what I thought was a steam whistle, albeit of a more conventional sort of design than yours. We tried it on compressed air at a friend's workshop as he has a compressor and it produced a pleasing note. It then went into the collection of bits for adding to the engine room equipment as the 'plumbing' progressed.

When Greg finally got it set up and plumbed with steam it produced no sound at all, but did produce a good steam cloud. Greg then applied his magic and rebuilt it as a steam whistle which now does produce a nice note.

OK, so where am I going? Well my suggestion would be to consider turning it into a more conventional steam whistle with steam input from below. The nice lever could then be mounted underneath to operate a (modern) push button steam valve. I will edit this and post up a photo of what Greg did which may help explain my thinking.

No pic as my best efforts do not make the idea clear. However, one of these under your whistle http://www.heritagesteamsupplies.co.uk/ ... alves.html plus some sort of bracket so that you replace the boring curved arm with your more interesting one.

I guess my inspiration must have been one of these: http://prestonservices.co.uk/item/11-lu ... e-whistle/

Regards

Pete

Akitene wrote:Thank you for your advice, cyberbadger.

First of all, I'll make a cutaway drawing of the whistle:
1. I've got to verify if the thickness of the steam pressured parts is suitable for a MAWP of 10 bars / 145 PSI.
2. Then, if possible, I've got to determine how to place a stuffing gland on the valve stem, where it protrudes atop the whistle.

You're perfectly right, I'll place an isolation steam rated valve between the boiler and the whistle, to prevent the lever-activated stem valve from getting stuck open. This should not happen but the motto is "security first".

By the way, I do love your highly unconventionnal Nyitra project.

On point 1, the only part of your whistle that will be exposed to 10bar/145 psi is the valve itself and the inlet threads. Depending on the width of the slot where the steam comes out there is only maybe a 30 to 40 psi buildup of pressure inside.

On point 2, Why? the only time steam can come out is when the whistle is blown and then it is minimal. Many American locomotives used a top lever steam whistle and I have never seen on that had a packing gland with a seal.

If it will work and hold pressure on air 99 times out of 100 it will work on steam. It may sound a bit different but will work.

Frank

@PeteThePen1: I've read that steam and air don't produce the same effect (for quite clear reasons) but I've never heard of a whistle getting mute when blown with steam instead of air. Quite interesting, nevertheless; I'll keep that in mind. I think I won't transform my whistle and keep it as is (unless it turns out it's mute under steam ).

@racerfrank: you're right, the maximum pressure is mainly concentrated at the valve seat area. I've disassembled and measured my whistle, there's "plenty of meat" everywhere, it will sustain 10 bars/145 PSI. I've discovered there's room for a gland stuff in the valve stem housing. It's not easy to describe, I'll make a cross section drawing to show you what I'm talking about.