The Steamboating Forum

Setting aside my ambitious plans for the John Fitch, I step out into the new shop and start making real progress on a real boat. I was originally going to call her Modest, but given the manner in (and materials from) which the boat will be constructed, I think I will leave the name Modest for a skipper with a boat pretty enough to deserve it. My boat will be called Das Billige, or perhaps just Billige.

The project can be found here: http://s333.photobucket.com/user/Nbrent ... %20Project

I will give a short summary in this post (all the information below can be found in the pictures).

The plan is to make a sidewheeler. For the engine, a converted two-stroke. For the boiler, a no-weld Porcupine. For the hull, an aluminum canoe.

First, the engine.

After looking up several videos online about converting a two-stroke to a steam engine, I figured I had the concept pretty well down. I looked on Craigslist for a cheap two-stroke engine, but began thinking that Harbor Freight would probably have some knockoff brand, and for a few dollars more, I could have a brand new engine. So, I bought a 212cc Predator horizontal shaft engine.

After three days of stripping the engine down, cutting out an errant governor assembly that had fallen into the crankcase, and washing out the engine with degreaser and WD-40 - we realized that the engine was a four-stroke (my father sometimes gives me too much credit in thinking I know what I'm doing). Into the trash it went.

So, I looked online for a cheap chainsaw, and Lowes had a few, clearly labeled TWO-STROKE (so even I couldn't get it wrong). I came home with a 38cc Polan 18", and quickly stripped it down to the bare engine (keeping the frame for potential use as an engine bed). The seal between the cylinder and crankcase, I discovered, had no gaskets on this engine - the manufacturer had used RTB to hold things together. I made up some gaskets anyway, on the off-chance that they will hold oil.


Additionally, the parts for the electronic side of the engine are beginning to arrive.

One of the biggest problems I noticed with many of the well-meaning but ill-informed (or rather, just informed enough to be dangerous) videos about conversion from two-stroke to steam, is that none of the creators actually ran the engine on steam. If they had, they would have quickly discovered that their valves and fittings were not steam rated...

So, on to McMaster-Carr to order (under my father's direction) the proper electronic controls. We ended up with a 110V 40W solenoid valve from Magnatrol, and a basic reed switch, which will be protected from high voltage by a solid state relay driving the solenoid.

As it currently stands, the engine is sitting, in a few pieces, on the workbench, along with the solenoid valve, reed switch, and a casting kit for the 1880s feedwater hand pump from Pearl Engine Company, just arrived today via courier (downside of living in a new development in Buckeye is that, according to just about every map and GPS, my neighborhood doesn't exist. Google Maps shows the area as an empty dirt field - I just tell people I live in an underground bunker).


After the engine is together, progress becomes a matter of finding a dealer who will sell boiler tubing in small batches.

I have built steam engines (that actually run on steam) from both two stroke engines and four stroke engines. In my view the four strokes make for a better conversion as the crankcase oil can be more easily separated from the steam. The porting thru the crankcase for most two strokes is problematic and the cylinder needs to be replaced with a new, longer, unported cylinder (or a long uniflow ported cylinder that does not allow steam entering the crankcase. Steam engines I have made from:

1 Continental 6 CID four stroke engine, using poppet valves actuated by the engine's camshaft, one day to do the conversion, with no welder, only files and 1/4 inch drill. Had to braze two cam lobes on the camshaft. Single acting, using original piston/crank

2. Wisconsin 23 CID four stroke industrial engine, poppet inlet valves, uniflow exhaust, 5 BHP @ 1040 RPM. Had the cylinder cast in iron, much machining og heads, ports, cam, etc. Single acting, using original piston/crank and second piston stacked onto original to keep crankcase isolated from steam. Ran several thousand hours powering my house.

3. Power Products 4.7 CID two stroke lawn mower engine, piston slide valve for admission and exhaust. 1/4 HP @ 600 RPM, Replaced working cylinder with a 1-1/2 inch bore x 5 inch long air cylinder sleeve. Toothed belt drive pumps for oil feed, crankcase scavenging, and feedwater pump. Powered "Steam Scanoe", see Radow's web pages for details.

The best and easiest machine to convert to a steam engine is a two cylinder air compressor, Harbor Freight also sells those, and they are easily converted to a "Westinghouse Junior" type engine. A two stage air compressor can be converted into a good compound steam engine.

The best and easiest machine to convert to a steam engine is a two cylinder air compressor, Harbor Freight also sells those, and they are easily converted to a "Westinghouse Junior" type engine. A two stage air compressor can be converted into a good compound steam engine.[/quote]

Fred,
I have a smaller Webster 2 cylinder, single stage compressor with minor valve trouble that might be of interest to someone reading this. It is available free to anyone who can use it.

I ran Otter for twenty years on a converted refrigeration compressor. Details here:

http://smaalders.net/bart/engine.html

- Bart

I ought to have come here before making any purchases. My efforts thus far will be a cautionary tale for future generations. I, at least, am enjoying the experience.

Unfortunately, I do not yet have brazing capability/equipment, though the 212cc Predator will still be around when I do, as I would be loathe to throw away an entire engine.

The cylinder on the 38cc two-stroketwo-stroke exhausts out the side, but there do appear to be two small ports, created by removable sleeves made of some compound. Since I've already got the engine and voided the warranty, would it be worth an attempt to seal these ports with some kind of high-temperature epoxy, or is there some other detail I am missing?

My understanding is that converting a compressor requires machining a valve, valve rod, packing gland, etc., which is why I ended up going with the two-stroke route (my father knows the electrical enough to handle that, but neither of us has any machining experience yet to handle the aforementioned valve machining).

Brenton Baker wrote: My understanding is that converting a compressor requires machining a valve, valve rod, packing gland, etc., which is why I ended up going with the two-stroke route (my father knows the electrical enough to handle that, but neither of us has any machining experience yet to handle the aforementioned valve machining).

If you can, spend some time at a local junior college taking a machining course or two... there may be other places to take such classes. The skills you get will last you a lifetime, and open a lot of possiblities.

- Bart

Brenton,
I second Bart's comments. There are also several good Youtube videos that deal with machining practices, Tubalcain, a retired votec instructor, is one with several exellent videos.

I'm also reminded of the saying that we need to be able to learn from the mistakes of others since we'll never live long enough to make them all ourselves, though at times it may feel like it at times. By being on this forum you have a vast recource of successes and failures for the novice to veteran steamer.

Have a Happy New Year

Dave

It's been my experience every time I've tried to use something for steam that was originally intended for something else, it doesn't work out too well. It works but..

Steam engines are just a different animal altogether. I see folks convert 2 cycle to bash valves and damming up the interior areas of 4 cycle cylinder heads, rotary valves etc. It's a lot of work and can be much more difficult to get it operating reliably than a conventional steam engine designed for the application.

For a simple small steam engine that is inexpensive and easy to build, have a look at the PM research "Strelinger engine". Tiny Power also has a cast iron slide valve cylinder group 2.5 X 3of castings for $125. Take that and design your own lower end which can be built out of readily available bar stock. <--- That is what I would do. Start a thread here on it, post pics and there are many here that can help you with design phase, material selection, machining etc.

http://www.tinypower.com/store.php?crn= ... 822adbbef5



-Ron

Thank you all very much for the suggestions.

The overwhelming consensus seems to be to go with machining up an engine, from castings or from an existing machine.

Part of the experiment of this boat is to see if an engine (which will be powering a chain and easy to replace later on with a proper steam engine, something I intend to do) can be built without the need for machine shop equipment. There is so much stir on the Internet around these posts about building compressed air or steam engines from existing machinery, using off-the-shelf parts and no machining. Most of the people making these videos almost make a working engine, and none of them seem to have access to steam to actually demonstrate the engine. I will, however, and will document in greater detail the components used and the work done. The converted two-stroke, if it turns out to be a complete failure, will be a well-documented failure, at least (is experimentation not the purpose of these hobbies? It is for me, at least).

Rest assured, if that is the case, I will be purchasing and machining castings for a proper steam engine.

Thank you all again for the comments. They have been very informative, and have certainly not fallen on deaf ears.

I have purchased the cylinder castings from Tiny Power and would like to build a proper steam engine.

A few developments have lead to this decision, namely:

- The two-stroke engine was found to be built in such a way that it could not be readily reassembled (the seals were not gaskets but some kind of RTB, amongst other things)

- I made plans to modify the four-stroke in order to make it suitable for conversion, to find that my father, thinking that part of the project had been a failure, had thrown both engines away

The solenoid/capacitor/reed switch assembly itself works (with perhaps a few more decibels than I would like at the higher RPMs) - so I consider that part to be a success - but it isn't much good without an engine, and after going through two engines and as many weeks and still having no working prototype to show for it, I think I will leave that project for another day (after I've gotten steaming).

I will update when the cylinder castings have arrived; in the meantime, I can start doing prep work on the feedwater pump castings, and of course anything else you all suggest.