Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:22 pm
by cyberbadger
Lopez Mike wrote:I wouldn't fret a bit about the efficiency of your alternator.
I'm not fretting at all. It's going onto the my launch with the boiler. It's 22 lbs altogether alternator and stuart. The visual interest is excellent, it's a good demonstrator for those who think steam power is complete magic (which it still is ), and it could certainly do some practical charging to a battery. Sure Solar and LEDs would make more sense - but they certainly didn't have those as an options back in the day.
This is a case of why I like Bill Durham's attitude in his steam boat bible - there is enough water for all types of configuration of launches.
And in that vein I thought I'd just share my solution to a little bit of steam electricity as I was putting it together.
-CB
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:52 pm
by Mike Rometer
Mike, the best thing I converted to LED lately was the lamp on my Milling machine. It was halogen, and got so hot the suds over-spray would burn on the lens cover. Halogen was very bright with a clean lens, but the LED is not really noticeably any less bright.
All things have their place.
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:09 pm
by barts
Lopez Mike wrote:I wouldn't fret a bit about the efficiency of your alternator. With the thermal efficiency of your boiler and engine never reaching one or two percent, a lossy conversion from mechanical to electrical work is insignificant.
As much as I appreciate the wonderful efficiency of LED lights and understand that they are probably the way to go, I find the main argument for them to be just silly in many cases.
The complaint about incandescent light is that much of their energy is in the infrared and thus is wasted. Well it depends on what you consider 'wasted'. I live in a place where no one has, much less uses, air conditioning. About half of the time I heat with resistance heating. Ordinary baseboard heaters. So what if my light bulbs are putting out heat? It's just more heat to me. Electrical heaters are 100% efficient by definition. Where else is the heat going to go to? Same thing with the cord to a portable heater. So what if it gets warm? Just more heat unless it starts to smoke.
On my boat or in my RV is different. Limited supply of energy and I don't heat with it.
Grump!
Resistance heating is the product of low energy prices. A heat pump would yield perhaps 4 times as much heating effect for the same energy consumption.
- Bart
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:51 pm
by Oilking
Fred's info on his electric boat has sparked the following idea :
1. permanent magnet motors can be both motor or generator
2. the voltage out put of the generator is proportional to the speed it is turned
3. the speed of the motor is proportional to the in put voltage
Given the above, why would it not work to have a steam driven generator drive and electric propulsion motor? Speed would be controlled by the speed of the steam engine that would only need to run in one direction since reversing would be done buy a switch in the lines to the motor.
Though not traditional, it would provide greater flexibility in the locating of the power plant components on the hull.
Tell me why it won't work
Dave
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:07 pm
by barts
Oilking wrote:Fred's info on his electric boat has sparked the following idea :
1. permanent magnet motors can be both motor or generator
2. the voltage out put of the generator is proportional to the speed it is turned
3. the speed of the motor is proportional to the in put voltage
Given the above, why would it not work to have a steam driven generator drive and electric propulsion motor? Speed would be controlled by the speed of the steam engine that would only need to run in one direction since reversing would be done buy a switch in the lines to the motor.
Though not traditional, it would provide greater flexibility in the locating of the power plant components on the hull.
Tell me why it won't work
Dave
It will work - you'll just lose at least 30% of the power along the way. This sort of drive is idea for a prime mover that isn't as flexible as a steam engine - hence this is the way ferries, locomotives, etc. are powered. But in small sizes, efficiency suffers, and you don't need it w/ a steam engine unless you're trying to drive something very fast and very slow.
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:30 pm
by cyberbadger
barts wrote:
Oilking wrote:
Tell me why it won't work
It would work as barts says, but is depending on your point of view silly.
But you can think of the electric light I'm making like this
fire -> water -> steam -> reciprocating steam engine -> alternator -> electrical energy -> lightbulb -> light.
Fire alone also produces light, I just added a lot of steps for nothing.
-CB
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:36 pm
by Oilking
It's kinda like what an old friend told me when started hand loading ammo, " Don't think your going to get cheep ammo. It's an expensive hobby that sure beats mainlining heroin." Fortunately in this addiction, as long as we don't go beyond what is safe, we can try things just for the fun of it.
Keep having fun!
Dave
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:00 am
by cyberbadger
Trying to give the Toledo a load, so it can give the boiler a load and I can get more practice firing.
This is a slightly different WindBlue alternator, the 512 model.
It's got a big reduction from a 19" V belt pulley to 3" V belt pulley because the 512 likes higher revs.
I love how the Toledo has so much torque, it can light two 100W incandescent 12V lightbulbs like nothing is there.
And yes, erhm - the roller chain was a bit loose.
My first time dealing with roller chain...
-CB
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:48 pm
by cyberbadger
Tightened up the chain. Better video, 400Watts incandescent load(One 300W bulb, one 100W) continuous at 100-120 RPM.
Need to machine some flats on the alternator reduction shaft and use some locktite, after a while they want to come loose.
-CB
Re: Auxilliary Engine and Wind Blue Permanent Magnet Alterna
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:04 pm
by Mike Rometer
750 watts to each Horse Power! That's a bit over half a horse so far.
), and it could certainly do some practical charging to a battery. Sure Solar and LEDs would make more sense - but they certainly didn't have those as an options back in the day.
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