The Steamboating Forum

87gn@tahoe wrote:... Speaking of which, I haven't received any publications since Jan/Feb 2011

wes

Mar/Apr 2011 was a little late, but your copy was mailed from Portland, OR on May 5, 2011 to:
Wesley Harcourt
P.O. Box 1338
Zephyr Cove, NV 89448
USA

If you haven't received it by the time you read this AND if the address above is correct drop me an email at: steamboating@pcez.com and I'll get a copy in the mail. If you've changed your mailing address, email me the new addy and I'll get a copy in the mail.

Ron

Thanks Ron,

I'll check today

wes

Wes,

Boat is looking great. That is a very extensive build. keep plugging away, you'll get it finished.

-Ron

It's mostly my dad working on it alone or with some help from Gerek. I've put in a few hours here and there, but I am usually at work playing babysitter (foreman).

He probably would have been better off starting from scratch like you did Ron. Starting with a well used logging tug, nothing is straight or square, makes getting things symmetrical frustrating if not impossible.

His drive is amazing. Being retired help a little too.

Wes,

Being an actual logging tug with a history is pretty appealing. Makes the time spent on the work-arounds worth it. How much does the hull weigh?

My Tug build has went pretty well, but there are things I will change on the next one

-Ron

Not too much history as she was built in the '50's or '60's. Ever see the movie "Sometimes a Great Notion" with Paul Newman?

They had to bring it across some scales while trucking it up here and with a HEAVY set of doubles, tanks, fenders, and a bunch of other sundry items she came in at around 30,000! Most of the hull was double plated; they just plated over the banged-up outer (now inner) plates. My dad cut most of the inner plates out and re-welded the ribs.

Probably weighs about 15,000- 20,000 now with all of the new superstructure and sans machinery.

The boiler weighs about 4,800lbs DRY. It holds 280 gallons of water at operating level. Engine about 1000, steam pumps and "alt-set" 500, 100+gallons of waste oil, 100+gallons of make-up water, piping ropes chain anchors etc probably another 1000lbs. She's gunna be HEAVY

Trying to convince him to go with a watertube boiler instead, but he's worried about it being a code boiler.

Coart Guard rules state that Steamboats under 39 or 40 feet (I 'm not sure, never considered building anything that big) are exemp from requiring Code boilers, as long as they are not for paying passengers. A Code boiler is good to have anyway.

Why are you promoting a watertube boiler, the boat is big enough for the large commercial firetube boiler that is already purchased? Building a watertube boiler this large would be plenty of work, and used Code firetube boilers in the required size range are available for relatively low prices. The firetube boiler is much easier to control, assuming there is room for it.

I think the 'guard's regulations have changed in the past 10-15 years, going up in size. I think it used to be that boats of that size or larger were also required to have a licensed engineer. Most of those regulations are not enforced nowadays anyway unless you have paying passengers. I think we're all just an amusing oddity at the moment, as long as there are no accidents.

I am not against code boilers by any means, the current Kiwani boiler is a code piece. He is just stuck on it due to fear of liability and being near the general public.

The current boiler will fit fine, but is quite large compared to what a comparable watertube would be, even a package watertube like a Bryan (before finding this boiler my dad looked into getting a "naked" boiler from Bryan with no casings, and building his own more compact casing). More space is always a plus, as with the current boiler space for cleaning/maintenance and the head (with shower) is VERY tight and will make it quite difficult for the older, more portly, crowd. sqFT/HS per horsepower is generally less for watertubes than firetubes, so that will also aide in having a smaller package... I drew up a "Thornycroft" watertube with some 300sqft/hs in a 3.5'X5'X5' package with a 24" steam drum and a *i think* 12" mud drum(including casing). The grate area wasn't awesome, but it was MUCH better than the current boiler

Multi-fuel capability would be a benefit as the current boiler only has a 1ft diameter main flue, so liquid firing is a must. A watertube would have much more grate area for burning solid fuels if one so chose, or needed to.

Less weight would be nice as well. 4,800lbs + 280 gal/water as opposed to say, 3,000lbs and 175 gal/water? She will have plenty of ballast as it is, and the fact that she originally was a low-lying tugboat hull with a single diesel engine, we're not quite sure how much low-er she'll be with all of the steam machinery.

Faster steaming of a watertube and the ability to "force" is nice. Getting steam-up in an hour or so is much more enjoyable than waiting 2-3 hours.

Controlling is a mostly a non-issue. We're not talking a monotube or Lamont here, more like a Roberts, B&W, Yarrow, or maybe a Simpson Strickland "Thornycroft" style boiler with large steam and mud drums.

Building or buying would he a hurdle as it would not be free in the money or time departments and he bought the current boiler for a song.

The firetube would have much more reserve capacity if one found themselves in some sort of fuel shortage predicament as long as it wasn't 10 miles from the nearest liquid fuel with cords of unusable firewood lining the shore.

I am pretty good at telling him how to spend his money

My dad and I visited John York yesterday and got a new toy ;

John York himself (best side):



My father strapping, or strapping father:



Ready to roll:



Indoctrinating my nephew:



It's a 100sqft "roberts" watertube John built and had in his shop at home powering a mill engine and line shafts for many many years. He originally intended to put it in a boat with a Navy K compound. Don Mentzier (sp?) did the cladding work.

This will most likely replace the "great pumpkin" horizontal firetube, as it is MUCH lighter (approx 1500lbs vs 4800lbs), more compact (48"Lx38"Wx55"H vs 48"Dx90"Lx66"H ), efficient, faster steaming, and a more solid-fuel friendly firebox. We will be adding a whole bunch of economizer, as well as possibly a larger steam drum and a waterwall on the back of the firebox.

Wow - neat! You guys are making progress!

For a condensing compound, you can basically assume 30-35 BMEP on the big cylinder depending on 150-225 psi steam pressure... so that engine w/ a 10"x6" can produce 33 * .5 * 78.5 * 400 /33000 or about 15 HP at 200 rpm. That boiler will produce enough steam for 250 rpm or so.
An engine like this uses about 20 lbs steam/hp hr, so your feed pump will be doing 20*20/8 = 50 gal/hr just to keep up; I'd set it up w/ 1.5 gpm or so for extras....

If you're going to use that aux engine, you may want to drive a forcing fan for the boiler, too .

What a neat project!

- Bart