Tiny power M

[racerfrank]

Recently I was surfing the web and ran across a page with details on an M side crank build. I forgot to bookmark it and now I cant find it.

I am interested in any links that lead to information on Tiny Power M builds singles,twins or compounds.

Thanks in advance.

Frank

[DetroiTug]

In the "Archives" section of this forum, there is a thread titled "1958 Tiny Power Twin". It's from the old forum. It's basically the same as a single. The thread is not very complete, I took a bunch of pictures and was going to do a Steamboating Magazine article on the build, and my PC hard drive crashed. I learned the hard way, install a second drive and back everything up to it.

They are really good engines, powerful and very strongly built.

-Ron

[stevey_frac]

Slight change of topic,

But would an M Compound be suitable for use with superheated steam?

You'd have to supply lubricating oil obviously. I'm thinking steam between 100 - 125 PSI, and potentially 150 C of superheat. I'm somewhat worried about the seals.

--Steve

[barts]

Slight change of topic,

But would an M Compound be suitable for use with superheated steam?

You'd have to supply lubricating oil obviously. I'm thinking steam between 100 - 125 PSI, and potentially 150 C of superheat. I'm somewhat worried about the seals.

--Steve

I've tried superheat and slide valves.. they don't play well together. Either use piston valves or poppet valves for super heated steam for best results.
Slide valves don't like the conditions, and getting the oil out of the condensate or exhaust steam is a pita. One really should not exhaust oily steam overboard; if you use it for stack draft, the black oily rain is a real problem.

- Bart

[stevey_frac]

Hrm. Does anyone have such an engine that I can purchase ready to run? That was one of the main attractions of the M. It was ready to run, and as a bonus you could buy a compound....

I don't have the tools or experience to machine an engine up from castings.

--Steve

[stevey_frac]

Also, the plan was to condense, and send overboard... I didn't think you needed a terrible amount of oil, and it wouldn't be that big a deal to put it over the side...

The oil will break down in the water reasonably quickly. There are bacteria that eat oil!

edit: I did remember looking at this motor, which seems pretty heartily built...

http://home1.gte.net/evteng/MEengi.htm

--Steve

[Mike Rometer]

Hrm.

I don't have the tools or experience to machine an engine up from castings.

--Steve

With respect, that is defeatist talk. If you don't try you never will. I would hesitate to suggest trying to make an all out attempt at a complete engine straight off, but most amateur engineers started with a lathe and just made a few bushes and bits and then graduated. A small lathe need not cost a vast sum, but do ask advise from someone who has some experience.

Join a club, go to an evening class; there are many ways to get started. Help is out there you just need to WANT to.

[stevey_frac]

With respect, that is defeatist talk. If you don't try you never will. I would hesitate to suggest trying to make an all out attempt at a complete engine straight off, but most amateur engineers started with a lathe and just made a few bushes and bits and then graduated. A small lathe need not cost a vast sum, but do ask advise from someone who has some experience.

Join a club, go to an evening class; there are many ways to get started. Help is out there you just need to WANT to.

To be fair, I'm not saying I could not learn to. And actually... I don't want to...

I want to purchase a ready to run engine. The parts I want to build are the hull, and cabin, and boiler. Those are the parts I find most interesting, and want to devote my limited time to. My project is already years of work, 1000's of man-hours, and $10,000's of dollars without adding 'learn metalworking, and build an engine from castings' to it.

I appreciate that that might not be your dream. In fact, I expect that. That doesn't mean that it is my dream.

--Steve

[DetroiTug]

As far as the "seals" go, the M is no different than any other typical steam engine. Standard graphite packing etc. I would avoid superheating. Not worth the issues involved. Put a few more tubes in the boiler.

Emitting Oily steam over the side. Yep, should avoid it if possible, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Compared to a large two-cycle outboard, the oil discharged is minimal i.e. 8 ounces (over 12 hours)versus 64 ounces for a large out board, running two tanks of fuel (12 gals) in the same time period (or less)of operation. And too, steam cylinder oil contains tallow and is water soluble, petroleum oils like the outboards and steam condensing systems use will not break down in water and simply lay on top.

Even those that condense and use oil, must use some sort of absorption device to remove used oil from the hotwell. That too, should be disposed of properly. If it's simply thrown away, it will wind up in the nearest landfill, compressed, it's oil discharged and could eventually make it's way to the water table.

Re: Black rain from exhausting up the stack, not sure why, maybe it's the length or the design of the stack, but I don't have that problem at all.

Exhausting up the stack creates a forced draft which when burning wood, accomplishes an almost complete combustion. Far less air pollutants as a result.

Unless one is burning propane or making steam with solar and running a completely closed system, and properly handling the waste generated, they are leaving an environmental footprint.

-Ron

[fredrosse]

I'm thinking steam between 100 - 125 PSI, and potentially 150 C of superheat.

That is well over 600F ( 328C superheated steam temp), way too high for typical engines.