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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1514
Location: Northwest Detroit
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Quote: "I'm not in sympathy with CAD, CAM, and CNC."

I can't imagine going back to manual machining after working with CNC tackle for last 25 years. None of my mills have handwheels on them, I can jog to surface parts, jog to teach the machine simple routines for basic parts. And of course, CNC will do pathing that is simply impossible on a manual mill i.e. countours and 3D surfacing, 4th axis etc. I used to walk the manual mill around radius and shapes and then file it in :), rotary table with all sorts of scary fixtures, no, that is not where I'd want to go back to.

The first CNC machine I ran was a Browne and Sharpe Hydrocut tape reader. There was no CAD or CAM that could be used, it was all manual programming, and it could take a day or better to program a part with editing etc. I can draw and program in a few minutes now, G-codes with 2-300,000 lines/commands. I show people that think it's slow, I can type their name out in CAD, program an engraving path G-code and have it running on the machine in less than a minute.

For making a simple flat bracket. I draw it code it, throw a piece of stock in the mill, drill the holes, run the 2D perimeter multi-pass on Z and leave a few thousandths on the last cut. While it's machining, I can go and do something else, come back when it's done, pop it out of the drop and use it.

The lathe on the other hand, I have both manual and CNC lathes, for big one off parts, a manual lathe is fine. Lathe work is mostly 2D linear moves and rarely interpolated, If i have something that requires an angular cut or radius, then I use the CNC lathe, and of course production lathe parts too on CNC.

You'd like it if you had it and were trained on it, opens up whole new worlds.

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Posts: 1571
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA
Boat Name: S.L. Folly
That's such cool stuff. I recognize it and, believe it or not, appreciate it.

But . . .

I have maybe five or ten grand invested in my old Index mill and heavy 10 South Bend lathe and all the rest of the stuff in the shop. I'm supposed to stop everything, drop big bucks on changing over as well as a bunch of time fiddling around figuring it all out? And for what? I'm 75. I rest my case.

My shop is a means to an end. It's there so I can build things and get away from any sort of inside life. Not so I can spend my remaining years having the same troubled relationship I have with this computer! I'll pass.

I spent most of my working life as a process control field engineer. The closest a computer will get to my shop will be in a corner where I can use it to check my email and look silly things up on the web. Oh, yeah. Cat videos.

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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:35 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 2:42 am
Posts: 142
Location: Da Nang City Vietnam
Boat Name: Alphington
Quote:
Who makes that control?


The control is Fanuc 31i-B5 but with DMG MORI Celios interface and DMG MORI Technology Cycles and conversational programming. The Machine is NTX1000SZ 10 axis. The machine is basically 2 lathes and a 5 axis milling machine in one cabinet. 10 tools left and right on the turning turret and 38 tool chain magazine for the milling head. 6,000 RPM on the turning spindles 12,000 RPM on the milling head and 1000PSI through spindle coolant. All spindles have inbuilt motors, no gears or belts on the machine at all. Even the B axis for tilting the milling head is an enormous inbuilt direct drive servo with hydraulic clamping. All rapids are 40 Mtr/Min. Machine weighs 14 tons not including chip conveyor and coolant system. Definitely not a hobby machine. Certainly capable of simple one off jobs with relatively easy programming, but a manual lathe will generally be quicker for most one off turning jobs if you don't need to remove a lot of metal.

Boring bars. Sandvik anti vibration boring bars are magic. https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/products/silent_tools_turning Expensive yes, but the internal dampening has to be seen to be believed and there is a huge assortment of tips available for them. Sandvik boast up to 400% greater overhang than a standard bar and it is true. The maximum cutting depth is reduced at those overhangs naturally but high finish at reasonably high RPMs. The bars are not as strong as solid bars so they are generally not used for short heavy roughing operations.

Lionel


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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1514
Location: Northwest Detroit
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Lionel,

Impressive stuff. Sounds like one of those "hit the button and run like hell" :lol: Kidding. The big Brown and Sharpe Hydrocut I used to run would pull a two inch drill in mild steel, when it was peck-drilling it would shake the bus stop sign out in front of the shop. Thing was a beast and no pleasure on a hot day, it was all hydraulically controlled and had a radiator that was about 3 foot by 6 foot blowing hot air all the time. There was no toolpath or error checking in the code, it was literally hit the button and stand back, if it hit an incremental G02 or G03 I or J that was incorrect, it would just stop (hopefully) :)

For boring bars (that I can afford), I use the diamond insert Kennemetal types, 1" etc. They do a good job as long as the tip radius is kept small.

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:44 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 2:42 am
Posts: 142
Location: Da Nang City Vietnam
Boat Name: Alphington
Ron,
Quote:
Sounds like one of those "hit the button and run like hell

Fortunately for me the NTX has extremely good collision avoidance, so long as you load the correct 3D models for the tools and correctly enter the stock sizes or 3D stock models. The turret can machine a part in the left hand turning spindle while simultaneously the milling head can turn or mill a part in the right hand spindle. Very good test of the nerves.

Lionel


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 Post subject: Re: More progress
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Posts: 904
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Lopez Mike wrote:
I'm supposed to stop everything, drop big bucks on changing over as well as a bunch of time fiddling around figuring it all out? And for what? I'm 75. I rest my case.

Being old is not a valid reason. I know of a guy who started skateboarding in his 70s.

Now not wanting to spend the bucks and the changing and time fiddling is understandable.

-CB


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