altering my fuel type

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
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hedleypiper
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altering my fuel type

Post by hedleypiper » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:34 pm

I have an Ofeldts type of boiler that is propane fired. As soon as one waves a gas bottle on a boat in the UK everyone trembles at the knees.
Any firm views on changing to some form of oil firing, lune valley burner, "primus" like burner, pot burner, or solid fuel burning would be welcome ? (I did enjoy my old Merryweather B, alas long gone.)

I do not have a lot of space for an ash tray nor even for attending a fire. There is a most inconvenient thwart across between the boiler and the engine mount. At the moment the flame control is a pressure valve that cuts off the gas and there is a pilot flame that reignites it. All very neat and works well. But, the gas locker is small (fully up to regulation), slightly bigger if the front is removed. Small bottles of gas freeze up quite quickly and although they cool the G&Ts, one does has the embarrassment of lolling about waiting for the fire to wake up. Rather bigger bottles, out in the sunshine, freeze rather less and work very well.

I do know what gas can do in a bilge but the floors are all quite wide (2cm square openings) wooden gratings that permit very good airflow. The boat is nearly 40 years old and was reliable as set up.

Any ideas please.
Hedley
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dampfspieler
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by dampfspieler » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:56 am

Hello Hedlexy,

what do you think about a liquid fuel burner like this?
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It is a pressureless burner from a field kitchen and works well. There are two control valves for a wide range output. Let me know if you are interested, so you can get one from me.

Best Dietrich
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barts
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by barts » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:59 am

I built a Lune Valley style boiler; I've used oil firing for 20 years or so. The blast from the burner is introduced tangentially into the firebox, which is circular cast refractory Since there's not enough room for a ash pan, I've started on propane, using this to atomize the fuel oil on startup and then switching to steam atomizing when sufficient pressure is available.

On the other hand, you can likely fix your propane freezing problems by jacketing the tanks with water. If your boat is used in fresh water only, simply spraying the tanks with what you're floating in and letting the water drain out the gas drain holes will probably solve the problem w the tanks freezing, and would be a simple experiment w/ a bilge pump. At Burning Man (a large art festival in the Nevada desert with many fire effects) a common sight is large (100 lb) propane tanks sitting in trash cans filled with water. The more adventuresome use instant water heaters and circulation pumps to maintain the water at 100 F or so (daytime temperatures at the event). This provides large volumes of gas for dramatic fire effects.
The true maniacs use propane boilers - they pull liquid from special tanks, and then boil the liquid propane using (of course) propane fires to generate truly large quantities of gas.

- Bart
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Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
hedleypiper
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by hedleypiper » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:11 am

Dietrich, Thank you.
Looks interesting, paraffin, kerosene, home heating oil? and whose field kitchen ? AND how much ?

Practical points: does it go/ blow out and reignite easily . The door into the fire box is at the moment directed forward around the front of the boiler from where one sit. If one could shove it in there but would I have to be climbing around all the time to reignite it

Where Might you be, Continental Europe? I am in the south west UK.

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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by TahoeSteam » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:56 am

Hedley,

Here is a video of our friend, Ron Parola's steam launch "Victoria" and her Lune Valley fired Ofeldt boiler. He uses just regular deisel to fire it with great success. It took him several iterations and continually shortening the tubing, orifice sizes, and needle sizes before he finally found the right length where made plenty of steam and it didn't make the deisel get too hot and carbon up the burner. The lump in the centre is a 2" tow hitch ball to provide some thermal mass.

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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by fredrosse » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:01 pm

An important element with respect to vaporizing burners is illustrated in the attached graph. This is one reason why vaporizing burners with No. 2 (Diesel) oil are generally more difficult due to its vaporization range traversing its fire point, therefore mixing combustion air into the flow before you want combustion is not an option. Obviously No. 2 vaporizing burners can be successful, however I would prefer kerosene.

Gasoline also works well in this regard, but the low flash point temperature (100F, 40C) for gasoline introduces additional safety issues, so it is generally not appropriate for vaporizing burners in boats, although many steam automobiles successfully burn gasoline with vaporizing burners.
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by DetroiTug » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:11 am

Fred,

That is a very interesting graph and concurs with my experience vaporizing Kerosene and Gasoline. Interesting to note that the upper boiling er vaporizing limit of Kerosene is considerably above that of gasoline, making it much less likely to create carbon. That I suspected but was unaware of, I do know that vaporizing Kerosene is much more difficult (lower limit), generally requiring a vaporizer with three times as much heating surface compared to gasoline.

On my car, I run straight Kerosene and the carbon issues (overheating) have been virtually nonexistent and the folks that run Gasoline, especially with ethanol have considerable carbon issues.

The guys that run their steam cars regularly typically burn a mixture of Gas and Diesel or Gas and Kerosene, finding a blend that suits their vaporizer for least hassle free driving.

Should be noted too, in range of heat, coldest to hottest by number of carbon atoms, it is Gasoline - Kerosene - Diesel.

Thanks for posting that.

-Ron
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by hedleypiper » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Sorry to be stupid, but why the difference in potential "carbon" production ? Agree very interesting post, Thank you.

I understood that a problem with oil burning in small boilers is often not enough height in the combustion chamber for complete burning and that angling the flame so it forms a swirl also helps.

One thing I do not need is carbon in my tubes ! It is a heavy bummer pulling the pressure vessel out of the boiler shell, not to mention having to disconnect and then reconnect all the pipe work.. That could be a whole season's steamboating if I'm not careful.
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by TahoeSteam » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:55 pm

They're referring to the vaporizing burners... In those burners the fuel is fun through a tube which is impinged upon by flame to turn the fuel into vapor and make it easily ignitable. That heat, if too much for the fuel being used, will cause carbon to build up in the vaporizing tube and plug the burner. Stanley steam cars had a cable that was in the vaporizer that if pulled out would clean the carbon out if done regularly. If not, it got stuck and then you're really in a pickle. If the vaporizer is completely plugged with carbon one of the only ways to clean it out is to heat the tube to red hot and simultaneously run air through it to literally burn the carbon out of it. I've had to do that once on my launch "Wayward Belle"

They're wonderful burners if built right for the fuel being used (long, or short enough, vaporizer tube for gas, diesle, kerosene, or a mix) and regularly cleaned and maintained.

As far as your boiler is concerned, use good water treatment, and for the fire side a "steam lance" to blow the soot off the tubes while under way (with wind to your beam... TRUST ME. We do it about once every 4-8 hours of steaming) and a good brushing of the tubes at the end of the season with your smoke hood off, and you should be all good.
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Re: altering my fuel type

Post by cyberbadger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:38 am

TahoeSteam wrote:As far as your boiler is concerned, use good water treatment, and for the fire side a "steam lance" to blow the soot off the tubes while under way (with wind to your beam... TRUST ME. We do it about once every 4-8 hours of steaming) and a good brushing of the tubes at the end of the season with your smoke hood off, and you should be all good.
Confessions of a real steamboater! :-P Initially I was surprised by the metric every 4-8hrs, but then I thought - hmm maybe I should stick the idea into a list of things to I do more frequently on Nyitra. I think I'll try that sissal rope wrap on the steamhose for my lance. That seems to be the biggest negative to a steam lance - no mater what they are somewhat dangerous tools and a quite easy way to cause burns if you aren't careful - like any good sword they can cut both ways...

-CB
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