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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Steam on Deck
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:54 am
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Boat Name: Tulka
on a trip i had four threaded studs broke. and I had no drill machine. each bolt i had to chop out the remains with a screwdriver.it took forever . so a hand drill is not wrong to have with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
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Location: Northwest Detroit
Boat Name: Iron Chief
quote: "one thing that I like to have with on long trips is a welding machine"

All that is required for emergency welding is a car battery, some stick welding electrodes 6011's etc and a set of jumper cables for leads. It's not pretty, but it works.

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:40 am 
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Location: Northwest Detroit
Boat Name: Iron Chief
So lets say you have a bench in the cabin with a vise for pipes.

Not likely it would be a fixed bench, it would be a platform that folds against the wall, not enough room for a bench. That is what I have on the tug. I have one on on each side of the companionway aft that serve as cooking surface for a portable stove (galley flat), seats, shelves at times and workbenches and they are suspended with chains and can be folded against the wall. The vise would plug in to a socket on the hull for strength and it could be removed when not in use.

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
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Location: Phila PA USA
Boat Name: Margaret S.
Welding with a couple of car batteries (2 x 12 volts, wired in series, with jumper cables) works OK.

Without proper arc welding rods, a steel coat hanger (or similar mild steel rods), wrapped with pure cotton, with dried mud to hold it to the rod, provides the shield gas. I was told that is how it was done more than 100 years ago in the early days of arc welding before more sophisticated shielding coatings were developed.

One can actually weld with no shield coating at all, although the result is a very poor weld, with lots of porosity, and a brittle bond.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
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Location: Northwest Detroit
Boat Name: Iron Chief
We did it with one battery and 1/8" 6011 rods. An average car battery has a few hundred amps available for a short period (cold cranking amps) and that is why it doesn't work all that well, It starts out too hot and then the amperage starts dropping quickly, just like when trying to start a car in cold weather, the speed of the starter slows quickly. Have to weld in short segments. But it does work. Of course, this really hard on the battery, it's like a huge resistor.

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:08 am
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Location: Menlo Park, CA
Boat Name: Otter
Note that lubricating oil for engines would be difficult to obtain. An interesting article on the subject is here:

http://www.alexdenouden.nl/08/lubri.htm

Note that lower speed engines and paddle wheels would be easier to construct; propellers are not a simple technology.

- Bart

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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
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Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA
Boat Name: S.L. Folly
I beg to differ on the subject of paddle wheels v.s. propellors. I have seen some rather crude looking propellors that worked well and a screw propellor has to be pretty bad not to out perform even the most advance paddle wheel.

The simplest I've seen was made by cutting curved blades out of a common water tank. This is covered in Steam Boats and Modern Steam Launches, Vol. 1, Nr. 6 on pages 18 and 19. "It is a difficult engineering feat to design a really bad propellor."

It's often overlooked that the difference between a paddle wheel and a screw propellor is very much the same as between a stalled wing on an airplane and one with normal flow. The difference is startling.

I have a fondness for paddle wheels. I love the sound of Fred's boat's slow exhaust beat. But I am under no illusions about their efficiency.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Lighting the Boiler
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 12:10 am
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Boat Name: No Boat Yet
Interesting. I'm thinking the propeller technology would be fairly quickly regained. I saw a video of Fred's boat, and it does look like a lot of fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
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Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA
Boat Name: S.L. Folly
Earlier you mentioned a sextant. Not very useful on a steamboat. They are more of an offshore tool. Small steamboats are most unlikely to be out of site of land in clear weather.

I teach celestial navigation to hopeless luddites. One of my quips is that A: Modern electronic navigation is reliable and cheap. For the cost of a sextant you can buy ten G.P.S. receivers and a few kilos of AA batteries. B: As you approach the N.W. coast of America it is almost always overcast weather. You might be able to tie the sextant to a line and use it for a sounding lead for depth. C: If the GPS system is off the air it is a very good sign that you do NOT want to head for land. Something is VERY wrong. Stay at sea until you figure out what has happened.

All a moot point for your scenario as the satnav constellation would surely be degraded or gone.

As a side issue for the rest of the forum readers, (total thread hijack) I wonder what the minimum size steamer (assuming a reciprocating engine and any fuel) would it take to cross an ocean? Let's say the North Atlantic which means maybe at least 2000 km. minimum range. I think the first steamer to make it across the Atlantic arrived in the U.S. with a significant part of the boat consumed in the boiler. With a multiple expansion engine, due attention to feed water heating and such, at what point would the benefits of size make it possible?

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 Post subject: Re: Question about spare parts
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
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Location: Phila PA USA
Boat Name: Margaret S.
FROM MIKE: "I wonder what the minimum size steamer (assuming a reciprocating engine and any fuel) would it take to cross an ocean?"

I did some quick and crude calculations here, for a heavily laden steamer hull, with 40% of the hull displacement as coal fuel, running a very good condition steam plant, at various fractions of "Hull speed".

The ranges and run times are calculated, but if only 20% of displacement is fuel, then half those values. If good wood fuel rather than coal, then half again. Steam plant assumed efficiencies are optimistic, but attainable with a well arranged reciprocating plant.


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