A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
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cyberbadger
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A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:07 am

As I have added some handgrab poles and consider how I want to finish the deck...

I almost tripped on a recent steaming. This made me think, what are the likely scenarios if I had fallen off underway?

Nyitra would probably stay on some course and plod along for a while - getting to a low water condition.

However I think in this boiler it could get below the glass and still have quite a bit before it got the level of the ASME code fusible plug. But lets say it got to that point ... Whether the plug would actually melt and spray steam to put out the fire... I don't know.

If the fusible plug melted it would be interesting and a bad day, and I'd probably have to give an explanation if anyone witnessed it - But not dangerous in and off itself. If the fusible plug didn't melted I think solid fuel would run out before the water level got to the bottom tubesheet.

If I got back onboard: obviously drop the fire, in my case remove wood with log tongs. If there was a water level on the glass visible you could continue. If not visible water level - call it a day and let the boiler cool off.

But lets say you had a liquid or gas burner with a lot of fuel in a vft boiler. What would actually fall next?

I'm assuming no automatic/no continuous feed water source is operating.

I'm not panicing, but I think it's fair to know the likely outcomes - man overboard still happens!

-CB
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by barts » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:07 am

I was giving this some thought as well this year as I was clambering over the front deck of Rainbow to move fenders from one side to the other, and retrieving more wood, etc, while dealing w/ a pitching deck.

Some comments:

0) don't fall overboard. One hand for you, one for the boat. Add more handholds/lifelines so you can always do this.

1) If the weather is rough or you're unsteady, consider a harness w/ your life jacket. A self-inflating life jacket is comfortable, and the sailing ones have integral harnesses.

2) Unless you're in warm waters near shore, the most likely victim is the skipper. I was traveling about a half mile from shore in 55 F water - not a good situation for an impromptu swim.

3) If your wheel or tiller isn't lashed straight ahead the boat will circle back if it doesn't hit something first. You're unlikely to be able to
get back in though if the boat is still moving.

4) Trains deal with the skipper falling asleep w/ deadman's throttles. The same form impractical for a boat, but some offshore sailors have used a floating, trailing trip line that would close the throttle or otherwise halt the boat: Details: http://www.tor.cc/articles/last.htm A spring loaded ball shut-off valve on the main steam line would be pretty easy to make, and the trip line could then slam the throttle shut, giving the skipper a chance to get back to the boat.

Note that if you're boating w/ someone who doesn't know how to run the boat, teach them enough to be able to stop the steam plant in case you take that sudden swim...

- Bart
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by RGSP » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:22 am

Fast outboard dinghies and jet skis are often required by the water authorities here (and insurance companies) to have a cut-out operated by a cord attached to the helmsman. There have been a number of accidents over here which provoked the preceding requirement, including one very nasty one where the boat continued to circle at high speed, and minced more than one crew member.

That isn't going to apply to Nyitra, but a line connecting the helmsman to the boat can be no bad thing: you get used to wearing one and clipping it to something on the boat whenever you move significantly. When alone, a good lifejacket also makes sense: OK you may be a very strong swimmer, but if you've just gone overboard because something hit your head, then temporary swimming skills may be absent. There have been a few deaths in the sea around the UK this year where the victim was wearing a lifejacket rated for his weight, and supposed to turn him face up, but didn't work. I think the answers is to go up a grade or maybe two grades, on the lifejacket specification, and to avoid serious bulkiness that probably means, as Bart says, an automatic inflating one.

The design of Nyitra may also mean she is relatively easy to board from the water, and you probably won't ever take her out in significantly rough conditions. All the same, people often don't believe how difficult it is to get back aboard a conventional boat, especially in slightly choppy conditions. When alone, having a simple rope boarding ladder attached to some part of the boat accessible by a swimmer is a real life saver, and embarassment saver because it may help avoid the emergency services having to be called.
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by barts » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:48 am

RGSP wrote: The design of Nyitra may also mean she is relatively easy to board from the water, and you probably won't ever take her out in significantly rough conditions. All the same, people often don't believe how difficult it is to get back aboard a conventional boat, especially in slightly choppy conditions. When alone, having a simple rope boarding ladder attached to some part of the boat accessible by a swimmer is a real life saver, and embarassment saver because it may help avoid the emergency services having to be called.
It is indeed quite difficult to get into a boat w/ any freeboard. I can manage Otter via the stern (learned while de-weeding the prop), but the only way back into Rainbow is via the bronze boarding steps on her stern mounted rudder.

I will definitely look into a harness for Rainbow when single handing - thanks for bringing this up!

- Bart
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by dhic001 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:28 am

I have a rope ladder on the sidedeck down aft if I go to sea on my own. I have tried getting on board Zeltic from in the water, and it is extremely difficult without a rope or ladder. Fortunately I tried it alongside the wharf, where I could get ashore to get back on board. If I leave the cockpit at night or at sea when I'm on my own, the inflatable lifejacket is worn. Beware of the auto inflate lifejackets, if they get wet in storage, they may well go off on their own. If they are in a cupboard etc when they go off, expect to do some serious woodwork to repair the damage!
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by cyberbadger » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:30 pm

barts wrote:
RGSP wrote: The design of Nyitra may also mean she is relatively easy to board from the water, and you probably won't ever take her out in significantly rough conditions. All the same, people often don't believe how difficult it is to get back aboard a conventional boat, especially in slightly choppy conditions. When alone, having a simple rope boarding ladder attached to some part of the boat accessible by a swimmer is a real life saver, and embarassment saver because it may help avoid the emergency services having to be called.
It is indeed quite difficult to get into a boat w/ any freeboard. I can manage Otter via the stern (learned while de-weeding the prop), but the only way back into Rainbow is via the bronze boarding steps on her stern mounted rudder.

I will definitely look into a harness for Rainbow when single handing - thanks for bringing this up!

- Bart
Addressing this question for Nyitra is difficult for me because right now one really nice thing is the deck and how open it is.

It's a very friendly arrangement that is inviting. I have had several Dogs on board at the dock and I was tickled pink because the first just completely naturally came aboard. (He might have thought it was just an extension of the Dock. Or maybe he liked steamboats especially) I have seen grown men almost dance on the dock in front of Nyitra like they had to use the head, and it was them wanting to jump oboard and check out my plant while resisting the urge to violate marine etiquette. Personally I don't mind if a stranger jumps on board as long they just want to look or talk and are respectful. I also love that there is plenty of room onboard to stand and to walk. Some boats are more of sit down only(or mostly) experience.

I just need to make it a bit safer and keep some of the openness.

I specifically beefed up the stern railing with extra screws because I knew I would be using that area to awkwardly but successfully get on board from the water. I have thought about ladders but haven't made the commitment.

-CB
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by barts » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:21 am

dhic001 wrote:I have a rope ladder on the sidedeck down aft if I go to sea on my own. I have tried getting on board Zeltic from in the water, and it is extremely difficult without a rope or ladder. Fortunately I tried it alongside the wharf, where I could get ashore to get back on board. If I leave the cockpit at night or at sea when I'm on my own, the inflatable lifejacket is worn. Beware of the auto inflate lifejackets, if they get wet in storage, they may well go off on their own. If they are in a cupboard etc when they go off, expect to do some serious woodwork to repair the damage!
Daniel
Auto inflating life jackets should be of the hydrostatic type, which react to immersion & the resulting pressure rather than wetting.
This is a well known problem, and this is called out in the hydrostatic type of life jackets:

https://www.amazon.com/Mustang-Deluxe-H ... B004TU6F92

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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by RGSP » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:44 pm

barts wrote:
dhic001 wrote:I have a rope ladder on the sidedeck down aft if I go to sea on my own. I have tried getting on board Zeltic from in the water, and it is extremely difficult without a rope or ladder. Fortunately I tried it alongside the wharf, where I could get ashore to get back on board. If I leave the cockpit at night or at sea when I'm on my own, the inflatable lifejacket is worn. Beware of the auto inflate lifejackets, if they get wet in storage, they may well go off on their own. If they are in a cupboard etc when they go off, expect to do some serious woodwork to repair the damage!
Daniel
Auto inflating life jackets should be of the hydrostatic type, which react to immersion & the resulting pressure rather than wetting.
This is a well known problem, and this is called out in the hydrostatic type of life jackets:

https://www.amazon.com/Mustang-Deluxe-H ... B004TU6F92

- Bart
This isn't a new problem. My father was a WW2 fighter pilot, and his flying boots had a large and wicked looking dagger attached to them. Some thought it was an escape weapon, but in fact it was for puncturing the dinghy (which the pilot sat on) if it started inflating inadvertently.
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by Mike Rometer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:08 pm

RGSP wrote:
barts wrote:
dhic001 wrote:I have a rope ladder on the sidedeck down aft if I go to sea on my own. I have tried getting on board Zeltic from in the water, and it is extremely difficult without a rope or ladder. Fortunately I tried it alongside the wharf, where I could get ashore to get back on board. If I leave the cockpit at night or at sea when I'm on my own, the inflatable lifejacket is worn. Beware of the auto inflate lifejackets, if they get wet in storage, they may well go off on their own. If they are in a cupboard etc when they go off, expect to do some serious woodwork to repair the damage!
Daniel
Auto inflating life jackets should be of the hydrostatic type, which react to immersion & the resulting pressure rather than wetting.
This is a well known problem, and this is called out in the hydrostatic type of life jackets:

https://www.amazon.com/Mustang-Deluxe-H ... B004TU6F92

- Bart
This isn't a new problem. My father was a WW2 fighter pilot, and his flying boots had a large and wicked looking dagger attached to them. Some thought it was an escape weapon, but in fact it was for puncturing the dinghy (which the pilot sat on) if it started inflating inadvertently.
Just hope that you don't need the dinghy ten minutes later!
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Re: A question of a Lone skipper falling overboard

Post by Oilking » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:37 pm

The story was told around Cordova Alaska of a fisherman that while running alone at about 6 knots and towing a 15 to 20 foot skiff managed to fall of the bow of the boat. His first concern was getting deep enough to clear the prop. He then managed to popup in time to grab onto the skiff's towline, somehow climb into the skiff, pull it back to the boat, and get back on board. Not many of us would have the strength or luck. The tail was commonly told by those that has first hand knowledge of the individual.

Even growing up like a polywog, I have great respect for the water and wear a PDF of some form when on the water alone.
Power shutdowns and tethers are well to be considered if steaming alone. The subject came up in a conversation at the NWSS Meet in Tacoma last weekend.

Steam on, Steam Safe

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