Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
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DetroiTug
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by DetroiTug » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Quote: "You are free to tell me that this is the most stupid idea ever."

Apparently not.
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cyberbadger
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by cyberbadger » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:13 pm

DetroiTug wrote:Quote: "You are free to tell me that this is the most stupid idea ever."

Apparently not.
Fair enough. What do you want from me?

-CB
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by cyberbadger » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:32 pm

cyberbadger wrote:
DetroiTug wrote:Quote: "You are free to tell me that this is the most stupid idea ever."

Apparently not.
Fair enough. What do you want from me?

-CB
P.S. You must see me as disrespectful, stupid, and a nuisance with a piece of junk launch. It's been that way since I was planning. Lots of places I have clashed with forum members. I remember the arguments of not having any grasp of running an engine under load, or that using injectors was really dumb, that I should scrap my "propellor strut"/lower drive unit. When I try to use scientific measuring equipment or simulations, I just get the usual comment that it's completely flawed and wrong.

For what it's worth from my perspective all the images of your launches and videos and information has been absolutely invaluable to me and helpful. Many times I have said no to forum members suggestions, only to later decide they are right.

I don't know why my head is so good for bashing, or why I get into these arguments.

-CB
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DetroiTug
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by DetroiTug » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:21 pm

Not sure if you're misunderstanding what I'm writing or what or simply taking it the wrong way.

You mentioned using an injector as your primary way of getting water in the boiler and I mentioned they are problematic and introduce cold water to the boiler, dropping pressure, that is common knowledge. Have you noticed that introducing cold water to the boiler is not a good thing? Judging by the speeds you mentioned you're seeing, I'd say, Yes.

You mentioned running a belt through the deck to a shaft riding in bearings below the water line, I mentioned it was going to be problematic, has it been? According to your posts it has - weeds, belts breaking etc. I even offered suggestions on how to make that work better.

You mentioned running an engine with no load and indicated that your feedwater scheme, steam consumption issues were resolved or something to that effect, and I replied it was all going to change under load. Again, just common knowledge.

You mentioned that you've had nothing but trouble with ball valves, I honestly don't know anyone that has had trouble with steam rated ball valves in hobby steam service, and I don't know of anyone using a slow acting globe or gate valve for a throttle. If it works for you, awesome. I mentioned it because it might save you punching a hole in someone's expensive fiberglass power boat.

Sorry, if it seems I'm "bashing" you because I don't agree with what you're suggesting, Look at this thread right here in particular, I wasn't the only one with that opinion on your idea, but you replied to my posts only, so who has a problem with whom?. I make the suggestions to possibly help you or someone else reading the thread. Do whatever you want. Incidentally, I have a lot to learn, but I'm not an armchair steam enthusiast, I work with it quite a bit, just had the Locomobile out at Mason Michigan last weekend and drove it around for about five hours. If you opt to ignore my input, have at it.

Quote: "P.S. You must see me as disrespectful, stupid, and a nuisance with a piece of junk launch. It's been that way since I was planning. Lots of places I have clashed with forum members. I remember the arguments of not having any grasp of running an engine under load, or that using injectors was really dumb, that I should scrap my "propellor strut"/lower drive unit. When I try to use scientific measuring equipment or simulations, I just get the usual comment that it's completely flawed and wrong."

No one has ever wrote that or implied anything of the sort on here. I think everyone has been very nice and respectful to you, myself included. I remember a personal message you sent me on here about how you felt everyone on this forum was attacking or ganging up on you, no one is or has ever attacked you on here. I think you see disagreement with an idea you have or something you're doing as a personal insult. As long as you do that, you're going to have lots more "clashes" with members on discussion forums (Not me though). I get proven wrong frequently, I welcome it, it's part of the learning process. For instance, Fred and I disagreed about thermal conductivity of copper and steel water tubes, did you see either of us feeling attacked over it? no, I set up an unscientific test that was conclusive enough and proved he was right and now I know and I'm thankful to know. I learned something.
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by swedtug » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:37 pm

I think the idea with the two machines sounds like a fun experiment. if I remember right the Titanic had exhaust steam to a turbine which drove a third propeller .
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by cyberbadger » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 pm

DetroiTug wrote:Not sure if you're misunderstanding what I'm writing or what or simply taking it the wrong way.

You mentioned using an injector as your primary way of getting water in the boiler and I mentioned they are problematic and introduce cold water to the boiler, dropping pressure, that is common knowledge. Have you noticed that introducing cold water to the boiler is not a good thing? Judging by the speeds you mentioned you're seeing, I'd say, Yes.
I'm not introducing cold water into the boiler. If you think that you don't understand how an injector works. (Yes I know what you mean, The injector is spending heat energy to heat the water before it gets there.)

As far as the speeds, eh I was shooting for 6mph. The max my GPS indicated was 4.3knots~=5mph. The usual cruising speed is 1-3knots. Really to be honest it's hard to get an experienced fireman these days. I just need a few incremental improvements and more time on the water. Each time I go out there are improvements or changes.
DetroiTug wrote: You mentioned running a belt through the deck to a shaft riding in bearings below the water line, I mentioned it was going to be problematic, has it been? According to your posts it has - weeds, belts breaking etc. I even offered suggestions on how to make that work better.
1 belt breakage. None with the HTD pulleys and Gates Powergrip3 30mm belt. Seaweed has been an issue for the prop yes, not so much the belt.
DetroiTug wrote: You mentioned running an engine with no load and indicated that your feedwater scheme, steam consumption issues were resolved or something to that effect, and I replied it was all going to change under load. Again, just common knowledge.
I had a load though. An electrical one. No, it isn't quite the same, but it was sufficient for stationary testing.
DetroiTug wrote: You mentioned that you've had nothing but trouble with ball valves, I honestly don't know anyone that has had trouble with steam rated ball valves in hobby steam service.
No, problem with ball valves on Nyitra itself.. Ball valves, Apollo 250SWP ones I have I like and have more of them on my boiler then globe valves. Just don't like the 1/4 turn for everything.
(Had sloppiness in the past on my first boiler and cheap ball valves)

Globe valves I have had trouble with Nibco but I've found a replacement with a better design in the Milwaukee.
DetroiTug wrote:and I don't know of anyone using a slow acting globe or gate valve for a throttle.
Except for me.
Sorry, if it seems I'm "bashing" you because I don't agree with what you're suggesting.
It just seems like it can be more difficult then it should/could.
For instance, Fred and I disagreed about thermal conductivity of copper and steel water tubes, did you see either of us feeling attacked over it? no, I set up an unscientific test that was conclusive enough and proved he was right and now I know and I'm thankful to know. I learned something.
I decided not to conduct my own follow up experiment because I think it would just be considered invalid no matter the result.

-CB
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Re: Best Suggestions for Poor mans compound?

Post by Oilking » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Basically isn't this is what Mallet did when compounding using two separate sets of drivers on an articulated locomotive. As locomotives got bigger power was limited by the size of LP cylinders that could be fitted to the front drivers along with control problems associated with the LP engine such as slippage and power distribution at differing loads. Thus the superheated Simple Mallet's such as the Challengers, Bigboy's, and Yellowstones became the kins of the road.

Just a thought.

Dave
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