Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

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cyberbadger
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Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by cyberbadger » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:59 am

So, due to insufficent firetube maintence some of the firetubes on my boiler had glowing burning soot in several firetubes today, 48hrs after pulling the fire from the boiler after a not very fruitful steam lance session!

Ive seen coal burn several days as remains of a fire, but actually burning creosote soot deposits jammed in firetubes was a new one for me.

Anyone have this happen?

Am I correct in assuming putting a cresote log or soot remover - copper sulfate would be a bad idea because of chemical corrosion/rea tion with the steel?

I know people have strong opinions on steam lances, my problem was because the soot was so bad, It was very hard to get the pressure over 50psi, catch 22.

-CB
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Re: Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by RGSP » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:30 am

I have heard several times about people using "wonder soot removers" in powder form usually. They do work, at least in the short term, but all of those that I've heard of have been later, when they've been suffering from leaking boiler tubes and in need of major boiler repairs. Of course it may be that there are those who use the things, and get on well with them for a long time, and therefore never report problems, but I doubt it. In large (ship size) boilers, it was nothing unusual to find a smouldering pile of something not easily identifiable in a corner of the boiler system somewhere. I've never heard of anything creosote-like, but that's probably because wood burning is very rare in my own experience. Remains of disused politician?

My own steamboat has a water-tube boiler, and soot removal is rarely required because she burns oil quite cleanly. However, when cleaning IS required, it comes off quickly and easily using an ordinary brush, not even a wire brush. With a fire-tube boiler, my friend Phil can do a tube clean (using a cylindrical brush on a long handle) in little over an hour, because I've seen him do it. I suggest the most positive action possible is to make the boiler top cover easily removable for cleaning, and some people claim that using the cylindrical brush in a cordless drill works well.

Steam lances are good things, but they don't always work as well as one might hope.
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Re: Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by cyberbadger » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:19 pm

RGSP wrote:With a fire-tube boiler, my friend Phil can do a tube clean (using a cylindrical brush on a long handle) in little over an hour, because I've seen him do it. I suggest the most positive action possible is to make the boiler top cover easily removable for cleaning, and some people claim that using the cylindrical brush in a cordless drill works well.

Steam lances are good things, but they don't always work as well as one might hope.
That's what worked in the end was passing a short brush through the boiler using a pipe as a ramrod and then I would have my friend do that from the top and I would retrieve it from the fire box and hand it back up to him took about an hour. I just bought locally a tapered cylindrical nylon brush ... would like to find something stiffer next time I like the idea of brass so I can not worry too much about steel on Steel

I've experimented a little bit with the cordless drill but I feel like it's too easy too apply too much force and I've had flue brushes that would be bent in short order when they got stuck the drill would jllust turn until the wire got all bent.

I call the boiler top cover on a verticle boiler a bonnet. Mine is easy to remove after you crack the "rust seal".
A flat screw driver and hammer used on the lowest point of the bonnet works in my case quite quickly.

I was trying to explain to my steam buddy that has been a problem with Steam since they started adding flues (Lancaster horizontal I think?) and I dont think there is any way to get around the fact that it takes more time then you want and will be quite dirty one way or another.

75 firetubes, why did I tell my boiler maker to pack in as many as he could fit? :)

-CB
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Re: Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by DetroiTug » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:45 pm

I've never had much trouble with creosote or soot in the flues.

Creosote or large amounts of it is from burning green wood or certain types of wood. Soot is a product of incomplete combustion.

One of the advantages of non-condensing systems is the ability to exhaust up the stack by inducing draft. Inducing draft greatly increases the amount of oxygen to the fire and provides a more complete combustion. Watch videos of my Tug, you'll see there is rarely any smoke coming from the stack. It also pulls fire in to the tubes and burns up most everything. When I clean the flues, there is only small amounts in a few areas (near the firedoor).

In the attached picture, you can see the amount of heat, and no smoke out of the stack. In a steam car, if we're making smoke other than first startup, we have an issue that needs to be corrected, otherwise the performance is greatly degraded. The same goes for burning any type of fuel.

The issue other than related lower performance is soot coating the insides of the heat exchanger. Soot is a very good insulator. I think I read something like 1" of soot is equal to 7" of ceramic insulation?? something on that order, but the point is, it's bad and should not be allowed to collect on heat exchanger components.

Run that exhaust up the stack, that's probably cheaper than building a steam lance. Ask your traction engine buddies how there engines would run without exhausting up the stack. That is one of their and Locomotive folks points of concentration for optimal performance, positioning and sizing of the nozzle on the exhaust outlet in the stack.

-Ron
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Re: Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by cyberbadger » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:13 pm

Ron,

I have this[Exhaust up the stack], I've only run it once on the water. I have a 10ft steam stainless braded hose 1" NPT. Yesterday I tried, to use it, but I failed to realize that a valve was shut off - so that choked the engine, and I just decided to vent of the side for the day instead of investigating. When we went out to dinner later I realized that there was a valve which was shut. I came back to the dock and it was shut.

There s an issue that if it is minimally wavey this hose will dip through the water which is not what I want it to do. I really don't have anything in the hull, as the hulls are the pontoons. So I need to insulate/waterproof it, or put it on the top of the deck.

It is on my laundry list.

I'm a total believer in "pufffing". I just want to be able to turn it off when I want.

My friend and I conducted a sail vs steam race (We called it the 1890s Classic) yesterday. If I hadn't needed to use the manual steam blower I bet I would have had a better shot at winning. :) It actually came to a draw, my friend conceded one leg of the race because there was a technicality regarding the required cup of tea that had to be made that we had agreed to before hand. He claimed that I had not made a complete cup of tea, just 1/3 of a cup from the site glass. :) I said, but tea volume aside - I did make tea first. :lol: We planned it this way to be sort of all in good fun. And it gives the excuse to conduct the race next year. :)

-CB
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Re: Creosote Chimney/Firetube Fire

Post by smokestackmag » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:20 pm

CB -

I have never had a problem... because I clean my tubes regularly. I have a VFT boiler with 1" ID tubes. Initially I used a tube brush but then a friend (Steamboat Mike) introduced me to a tube scraper that works wonderfully. Go to McMaster, item # 7085T41 for the 1" size. It's more work and it will degrade (break down) as you use it but it is worthwhile.
Tim Lynch
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