Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
Centurion
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Centurion » Fri May 26, 2017 2:47 am

Kelly Anderson wrote:I use gaskets from http://www.mcmaster.com, #1923K22, which I believe are the same ones you and Mike have been talking about.

The first year of operation, I had problems due to the inside surface of the boiler shell having damage on the gasket seating surface, and also due to the clamping bridge having too little span, so it was coming up tight against the handhole cover itself before if came up really tight on the boiler shell. Half an hour with a certified welder followed by my spending an hour with the Dremel took care of the shell, and the metal shaper took care of the bridge span.

If you are having trouble seeing the alignment, you might try a mirror in the bilge so you can see it straight on without having to stand on your head. Bright working light is also a must.

Agree with the others, hand tight plus 1/4 turn is guaranteed to leak. A good healthy one handed pull with a 12" wrench is a good place to start. If you are certain, and I mean certain as it is possible to be, of the condition of the handhole cover, its stud, nut, and bridge, then you can give the nut an additional tweak should you hear a slight leak under pressure, but only if you are certain. That is no place to be taking a chance. You will find that no additional torque is needed after internal pressure has squished the gasket a little. Once the sound stops, stop tightening.

My handhole comes out after every operation. A dry boiler is a stable boiler in storage. I use the same gasket over and over as long as it isn't showing signs of damage.
Well, I'm a newbie and it was recommended to remove hand hole covers to dry out the boiler prior to storage. I also read the TOPOG-E gasket maker website that said that gaskets should never be reused, so I am struggling with installing new ones. This has ended up being the biggest hassle in the winterizing/summerizing process.

Question though. Do I understand you drain your boiler and remove one hand hole cover after each use?? Wow. I steamed probably 20 times last season and to do that after every trip it seems like it would be quite time consuming.

I don't believe I have a problem with mechanical dimensions or sealing surfaces. The boiler surface seems quite smooth and I have cleaned the hole cover surfaces so they seem clean. The bridge dimensions also seem right. Since the boiler sealed last year, I'm assuming that it is just figuring out the cover and new gasket installation process. All this trouble makes me wonder if removing the covers each season is worth all the aggravation. I appreciate everyone's input on this.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Kelly Anderson » Fri May 26, 2017 3:36 am

Centurion wrote:Well, I'm a newbie and it was recommended to remove hand hole covers to dry out the boiler prior to storage. I also read the TOPOG-E gasket maker website that said that gaskets should never be reused, so I am struggling with installing new ones. This has ended up being the biggest hassle in the winterizing/summerizing process. There is no need for it to be a hassle, you are just missing something, most likely just not tightening enough, so long as you don't tighten so much as to cut the gasket.

Question though. Do I understand you drain your boiler and remove one hand hole cover after each use?? Yes. Wow. I steamed probably 20 times last season and to do that after every trip it seems like it would be quite time consuming. I steam up perhaps four times per year, that's the difference. Regardless, it isn't good practice to leave a boiler wet and cold for more than a week, unless it is totally full, and the water chemistry is just right (which it most likely isn't in our small boilers). Look at it this way. Take two mason jars, one 2/3 full of water, and one empty. Drop a plain steel nail in each, and screw on the lid. Come back in however long your boiler is sitting with water in it. What is happening to the nail is also happening to the inside of your boiler, and I'll bet the nail in the empty jar is looking better than the other.

I don't believe I have a problem with mechanical dimensions or sealing surfaces. The boiler surface seems quite smooth and I have cleaned the hole cover surfaces so they seem clean. The bridge dimensions also seem right. Since the boiler sealed last year, I'm assuming that it is just figuring out the cover and new gasket installation process. All this trouble makes me wonder if removing the covers each season is worth all the aggravation. You must remove all plugs and handholes every year as part of the internal inspection process. Skipping that is purely irresponsible. I appreciate everyone's input on this.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri May 26, 2017 5:19 am

Now maybe try the nail experiment with different conditions.

Drop in the nail along with just a pinch of TSP. Fill the jar to the same 2/3s full and leave the lid just a little loose. Now bring the jar to a low boil for a few seconds and screw the lid down tight.

Those are the conditions when I leave my boiler for a few weeks between expeditions. High pH and no air makes for a much less corrosive environment. When shutting down for the Winter I blow down hot and leave an electrical heat source in the firebox.

I was the fireman and did much of the maintenance on a 1929 full sized locomotive. No condensing, of course, and reasonably soft water all of that time. The insides of the boiler below the water line were often a bit of a mess with the remains of whatever was left behind from the water source. We had to clean it out on a regular basis. Above the water line, however, the original mill scale for the manufacture of the steel pre 1929 was still there. Just dry steam and no oxygen.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Centurion » Sat May 27, 2017 1:13 am

Well,,,,,,,, I DID IT!!!

After an hour of awkward positions with my arms at angles they aren't supposed to work, I was able to get the two bottom hand hole covers with new gaskets in place. I torqued them much more than the TOPOG recommended 1/4 turn past finger tight and they now don't leak. Next step, hydrotest and then,,,, MAKE STEAM.

What I did differently:
1 - I scribed a vertical centerline on the handhole cover to visually identify proper position while installing/
2 - I marked the centerline of the gasket also. I can't insert the cover in the hole with the gasket on so I have to fit it on after the cover plate is in the boiler
3 - This made it much easier to verify and adjust the proper position of the gasket and the cover plate while holding the securing bolt with a pair of pliers.
4 - This made it easier to move the plate to assure proper gap between raised portion of the plate and the boiler wall while tightening the nut.

Thanks everyone for your help and therapy.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Lopez Mike » Sat May 27, 2017 1:30 am

Congratulations!!! Standing on your head in the bilge is no fun.

My next project is replacing a stern tube that is too close of a fit on the shaft. This will involve a lot of low cunning and bad language.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Mike Rometer » Sat May 27, 2017 9:01 am

Centurion wrote:Well,,,,,,,, I DID IT!!!

After an hour of awkward positions with my arms at angles they aren't supposed to work, I was able to get the two bottom hand hole covers with new gaskets in place. I torqued them much more than the TOPOG recommended 1/4 turn past finger tight and they now don't leak. Next step, hydrotest and then,,,, MAKE STEAM.

What I did differently:
1 - I scribed a vertical centerline on the handhole cover to visually identify proper position while installing/
2 - I marked the centerline of the gasket also. I can't insert the cover in the hole with the gasket on so I have to fit it on after the cover plate is in the boiler
3 - This made it much easier to verify and adjust the proper position of the gasket and the cover plate while holding the securing bolt with a pair of pliers.
4 - This made it easier to move the plate to assure proper gap between raised portion of the plate and the boiler wall while tightening the nut.

Thanks everyone for your help and therapy.

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Well done!

On to the next challenge.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by RGSP » Sat May 27, 2017 9:54 am

Lopez Mike wrote:Congratulations!!! Standing on your head in the bilge is no fun.

My next project is replacing a stern tube that is too close of a fit on the shaft. This will involve a lot of low cunning and bad language.
Oh dear. What a shame I'm 3,500 miles away or I'd be delighted to come and help with that. Of course!

Congratulations to Centurion: there had to be some way it would seal nicely. By the way, I stick to my comment about gaskets needing some sort of lubrication: if they say no lubricant, it's because they have some sort of layer to allow slight movement built-in.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Lopez Mike » Sat May 27, 2017 3:18 pm

A good deal more than 3500 miles from you. I'm out on the West coast of the U.S.

Shortest route is over the pole though it might be a bit harsh on your hull what with the ice and all.

Mike
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by RGSP » Sat May 27, 2017 7:03 pm

Lopez Mike wrote:A good deal more than 3500 miles from you. I'm out on the West coast of the U.S.

Shortest route is over the pole though it might be a bit harsh on your hull what with the ice and all.

Mike
Oh the ice is OK as long as it's not solid. I was in charge of an 8 metre long workboat in the summer of 1973, and took her over 2000 miles up and down the coast of Spitzbergen. You do need a re-paint every year though.
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Re: Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

Post by Lopez Mike » Sat May 27, 2017 9:46 pm

I just drilled a small hole in the tube inside the boat and am pouring a mixture of acetone and ATF down the hole with a lot of wrench action turning the shaft. Wish me luck. If this works I can procrastinate another year. Yea!!

My real hope is that my next encounter with this tube will be to poke it out of the ashes after I burn this hull. The lady down the street that wanted it for a flower garden is back pedaling.

You just can't depend on people these days.
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