Navy 1914 "K"model engine

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
wsmcycle
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Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by wsmcycle » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:19 pm

I recently purchased a 35 X 10 steam boat "Fearless" near Norfolk Va. I trailer-ed it back here to Fort Smith, AR where I like to steam on the Arkansas river. The boat has a Navy "K" steam engine and a 2005 year model Everett Boiler. It is a condenser system (Chesapeake bay). I have steamed it up while sitting on its trailer (wow does it bounce!) but not been in the water yet. I am looking for some operational write-up on the engine. I find many pix and specs for it but nothing like a good description of the engine. Are there many of these out there in use? Are there some things to be careful of? I would appreciate any help you could give me or direct me to some source of information.
Thanks
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by DetroiTug » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:21 pm

She is certainly big enough.

That engine is worth a good chuck of change if it is an original. Even if it is reproduction, it still would be. The Navy K is highly revered. I would love to have it. I think there was a guy (Scripps) making reproduction castings for a while. And I recall someone mentioning that they had a bit of a balance issue. Running one on the trailer is nothing really like running it in the water, the bounce will be a slight shake and the steam production to the load will be known then. No load on the engine, doesn't really tell one very much about that.

I would imagine steaming it would be the same as any other. Make sure there is a reliable feed water supply and that it has an accurate and reliable safety valve. That is the two most important things. Then some way to administer oil - preferably an hydrostatic lubricator. The rest of it is pretty basic- condition of the piping, hydrostatic testing of the boiler.

Post pics of your piping and many here can help and suggest if any changes need to be made.

-Ron
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:10 am

I'm not familiar with an 'Everett' boiler. Can anyone on here enlighten me?

It sure looks lost in that big boat.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by wsmcycle » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:55 pm

It is most definitely a Navy "K". I am a machinist and this thing is no homebrew. I include a pic of the end plate that shows possibly a serial number or casting number. I have been figuring out the plumbing and replacing some freeze damaged parts. This keel condenser has me confused. It would seem, that if the vacuum pump is going to pull any vacuum, it would have to be sealed. Can the exhaust get ahead of the condenser's ability? I cannot see having a closed system on the condenser because of possible exhaust pressure. There is a large diverter valve on the exhaust. When I ran it on the trailer, there was steam coming from the discharge end of the keel condenser which is below the boiler (not very accessible). Perhaps the vacuum pump is only to lift condesed water from the open condenser tube and the tube itself is intended to be an open system. I am going to put it in the water today and see how the condenser works.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:26 pm

That fitting under your boiler is busted or loose.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by S. Weaver » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:44 pm

wsmcycle wrote: ... I have been figuring out the plumbing and replacing some freeze damaged parts. This keel condenser has me confused. It would seem, that if the vacuum pump is going to pull any vacuum, it would have to be sealed.

Correcto.
wsmcycle wrote:Can the exhaust get ahead of the condenser's ability?

Not if it is designed correctly.
wsmcycle wrote:I cannot see having a closed system on the condenser because of possible exhaust pressure.
If you put "surface condenser" in the forum search field, you will find a lot of information about how they work. I would do this before making any modifications or repairs on the keel condenser.
wsmcycle wrote:There is a large diverter valve on the exhaust. When I ran it on the trailer, there was steam coming from the discharge end of the keel condenser which is below the boiler (not very accessible).
This is not good, as Mike alluded.
wsmcycle wrote:Perhaps the vacuum pump is only to lift condensed water from the open condenser tube and the tube itself is intended to be an open system. I am going to put it in the water today and see how the condenser works.
It should not be an open system. Watch it, you might take on water.

Your mileage might vary.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by marinesteam » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:59 pm

Lopez Mike wrote:I'm not familiar with an 'Everett' boiler. Can anyone on here enlighten me?

It sure looks lost in that big boat.
Everette Engineering in Washington, of steamboat Mosquito fame

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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by wsmcycle » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:53 pm

Recap of april 17

Backed boat in the lake Friday afternoon and loaded a bag of grocery store charcoal into the boiler. Lit it off with the propane burner. Once it was burning well, I put in fist size coal from the scuttle.
The pressure rose to 60 and I heated the engine with the drains open. I could not get it start until I closed a nice brass knob up near the throttle on the
Right side of the engine. (I don’t know what it is) With that closed, I had to do the old forward/reverse trick to get it to start. Woosh, we were off. Thankfully in reverse. I
Shoved it into forward which is also forward on the lever (nice). Off we go. What had we forgotten to do. Oops fill the backup tank. We were in fresh
Water (Kerr lake) on the Arkansas river. I simply dangled the 12v bilge pump over the side and filled the tank. While this distraction was going on, the
Pressure rose 110. As I continued to fill the tank, I had my son Cy start the engine. Same forward/reverse procedure and he burned his hand
On the throttle which is placed in almost touching position with the direction lever. (must do something about that). All I could think to do was put
A rag on the throttle. Not bad, and a piece of leather will be even better. Underway again and I am so giddy that I flood the backup tank. Well, that’s the
First water into the boat. I move around to check the fire and check the water level. The boat has three method of replenishing the boiler. A chain
Driven pump, a pentherby injector and a hand pump. This is my first time to steam with a condenser system and I was anxious to not have to run the
Injector or hand pump (which I do in my smaller Semple boat). But alas , the water level was going down. At this point, there was no water in the
Hot well so I pumped some in the same way I had filled the backup tank. The water level continued to go down in the boiler but curiously or mysteriously,
The level also went down in the hot well. I don’t know how this could be. But we are in need of water so I stop the engine and operate the injector. It
Picked up immediately but when the infeed line primed, a stream of water started coming out of the steam exhaust port. DANG!! Over to the pump
Which thankfully worked. I filled it up to about ¾ and steamed off again. The chain is turning the pumps and there is water going into the hot well but the
Boiler level has dropped TOO much so I stop again. I had stupidly as it turned out built way to big a fire because I didn’t know how this monster boiler
Would work. After much pumping, running ( about an hour) I decided to dig out the fire and throw it overboard which I did. I was surprised that coal
Floats and I left a trail behind me like little ducklings.
As I was instructed by Mike Lopez here on the forum it needed attention. I fixed the little dome (see pic) It fit down inside the up tube from the discharge from the keel condenser.
In the middle of this dome, there is A ½” copper tube which leads to the condenser pump. There were no screw threads or other means to attach the dome in the pipe. I am ignorant at this point
To know why. It did not appear to be broken, it just slid down inside male to female. I reasoned that it might be like a pressure relief. When there was
A vacuum in the condenser, it might leak some but mainly it would get sucked closed. That may be true, but when the engine would start, a pressure surge in
The condenser blew water up out of the condenser into the bottom of the boat. DANG again. It’s a big boat and on this short trip it was not much water
But water, oil, coal, boat dirt, and debris…. Sloshing fore and aft in the boat are really gross to me. The condenser pump continued to put water into the hot well when the engine
Was running but Cy and I were the horsepower to put water into the boiler via the hand pump. Where was the hot well water going?
I stopped the engine near the end of the adventure (I have had much worse first runs) to check this out. I shut the valve going into the boiler and cracked open the
Plug on the one way valve positioned just before the valve. This valve is the exit of the preheater down tube. I did not remove the plug but, hot water came forth from it. Now, somehow
The preheater was full of water. It had to be pumped by the boiler pump from the hot well, but it was not getting into the boiler. I was not sure how large the preheater
In the flue was but if I removed the plug completely, it would have all flowed into the boat and it was hot. Had I thought of it at the time (hindsight) I could
Have cracked open the discharge line from the hand pump as it plumbs in just downstream from the possibly offending one-way valve. If water came out, it would
Have exonerated the valve. But alas, I didn't think of it. I am going to go out in the plant to open that fitting on the hand pump and if there is still water in the preheater and
the one way valve works, it should come out.

more saga to follow after Saturday afternoon investigation.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by wsmcycle » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:18 pm

I was unable to exonerate the one-way valve between the preheater and the boiler because I lost the water in the preheater. I was looking through some papers that came with the boat and found the names of the restorers. "The boat was re-set up by a knowledgeable and professional steam power mechanic (Andrew VanLuenen and Ronnie Baird)." Is it possible that either of these men are on this forum or known by some members of this forum? I would like to know.
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Re: Navy 1914 "K"model engine

Post by Chris W » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:39 pm

I can't say anything about the machinery but I'm pretty sure the hull started out at Busch Gardens in Los Angeles. I remember a number of these hulls that were sold when the park closed. One was sitting in a boatyard in Costa Mesa and had a steam plant installed so I wonder if that is your boat?
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