Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
- fredrosse
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
What a nice engine, and what a nice job you are doing to make it into a launch engine. Beautiful work. Are you planning a cover on the mitre gears?
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Kelly,
Congratulations for the professional conversion!! This is a beautiful engine with a lot of visible moving parts. It would be fun tu watch, especially if a speed of ca. 250 rpm is not substantially exceeded. A 20" wheel with a lot of pitch would help in achieving this goal (provided you choose a suitable hull).
Albert
Congratulations for the professional conversion!! This is a beautiful engine with a lot of visible moving parts. It would be fun tu watch, especially if a speed of ca. 250 rpm is not substantially exceeded. A 20" wheel with a lot of pitch would help in achieving this goal (provided you choose a suitable hull).
Albert
- Lopez Mike
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Who among us had built a strip hull? My hull is an embarrassment and I've been looking for a stitch and glue plywood design. Now a kayak builder friend of mine is beating me up about strip construction. He cranks out his own strips from fairly dubious but inexpensive wood.
I'm interested in strip dimensions, fasteners, materials and such. I'm happy with my hull size, 24 x 6, and it's general features. It has a plumb bow and nice run aft with good prop room. But it is weak, ugly and poorly built from dubious materials.
I'm hearing talk of using plastic brads to hold the strips together. Any experiences with these?
Mike
I'm interested in strip dimensions, fasteners, materials and such. I'm happy with my hull size, 24 x 6, and it's general features. It has a plumb bow and nice run aft with good prop room. But it is weak, ugly and poorly built from dubious materials.
I'm hearing talk of using plastic brads to hold the strips together. Any experiences with these?
Mike
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
Dalai Lama
Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Mike, still in the middle of fitting out my ply composite construction, but the friend is correct - strip-built is straightforward and there are non-metallic staple manufacturers. Tell your friend that he is working too hard: milled strips with built in coves are produced by a number of firms. What one needs to get one's head around is the spool-up for epoxy production. Batch-mixing, personal protection, etc. Phil Bolger of stitch-n-glue design fame took time out to design a lovely steam launch for strip-built construction of @ 23+ feet. It is one of WoodenBoat's featured designs. Study plans are here:
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/400-092
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/400-092
Steve
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Mike, I have built a stripplanked hull of the size you are talking about (It is "Golden Bay" on the Selway-Fisher site - http://www.selway-fisher.com/Steam2030.htm#BAY)
It has been a single-handed endeavour in a busy life but is quite doable. The stripplanking is easy if rather tedious. I found using epoxy for the strips way too messy and slow. I used a poluyrethane glue that came in cartridges and set within 2 hours. I used silicon bronze ringloc nails at 1 ft centres to hold the strips together. In the whole hull only 4 protruded - so not too difficult. I needed the nails as the PU glue tends to expand as it goes off.
With strip planking the actual strength comes from the fibreglass on each side of the strips - it is a monocoque hull - the wood is just the shaped core.
BUT strip planking is NOT a fast way to make a hull. There is LOTS and LOTS of sanding, followed by more sanding.
I build a previous hull as glued plywood lapstrake - almost as pretty and MUCH faster.
Cheers
Paul
It has been a single-handed endeavour in a busy life but is quite doable. The stripplanking is easy if rather tedious. I found using epoxy for the strips way too messy and slow. I used a poluyrethane glue that came in cartridges and set within 2 hours. I used silicon bronze ringloc nails at 1 ft centres to hold the strips together. In the whole hull only 4 protruded - so not too difficult. I needed the nails as the PU glue tends to expand as it goes off.
With strip planking the actual strength comes from the fibreglass on each side of the strips - it is a monocoque hull - the wood is just the shaped core.
BUT strip planking is NOT a fast way to make a hull. There is LOTS and LOTS of sanding, followed by more sanding.
I build a previous hull as glued plywood lapstrake - almost as pretty and MUCH faster.
Cheers
Paul
- Kelly Anderson
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Mike Cole wrote:The SBA does have forums on its website but you do have to be a member to use them.
Thanks for the tip. I am a member of SBA, but didn’t realize that one had to be logged on to even see the chat room.Gudmund wrote:The SBA is well worth joining for the 4 issues per year of their magazine 'Funnel', but don't expect much from their forums. And if you do visit the UK there are plenty of members who will be only too pleased to meet you and possibly take you out.
Gudmund
That’s why I have been hoping to see photos of a 21’ Frolic out of the water, or a lines drawing, but no luck so far.gondolier88 wrote:For an engine like that, a 21ft Frolic is going to do it no favours, although 21ft LOA, they have a massize overhang aft, and a cutaway forefoot, actual LWL is around 18ft, the design squats a lot at speed and has a steep resistance curve, with a lot of wavemaking at between 75-100% hull speed. Don't misunderstand me, they are well built, pretty, and for cruising around at 3-4 mph in elegant style are perfect, but you could do better.
For the price of a hull and shipping you could build a strip planked hull to the exact dimensions and style that you want, as well as being able to suit it to your engine too. There are existing designs around in your size range, or design one yourself/have one designed.
A well designed launch at 21ft would easily attain and maintain hull speed with the engine you have (provided your boiler is a match too!) With a Plumb stem, fine entry, flat run aft, tapering finely to a transom with room to spin a good 18"Dia. prop. would give you cruising at 5-6mph, with hull speed around 8-9mph.
I agree with your points on hull design, do you have recommendations on reasonably priced builders? I have designed just what I am after (22’ x 6’) in traditional plywood on frame with two chines (like Reciproca), and have been greeted with estimates of $20,000 for a bare hull (no deck)! That is what made the bare hull price of the Frolic attractive. It's possible that I could import a bare hull for $12,000 +/-.
Thanks Fred. Oh yes, the gears will be covered, don’t want to drop something into them!fredrosse wrote:What a nice engine, and what a nice job you are doing to make it into a launch engine. Beautiful work. Are you planning a cover on the mitre gears?
It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work.
- PeteThePen1
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Hi Kelly
Congratulations on that engine. You have done a good job with it.
Sorry for the slow reaponse, but I was glad to see that Gudmund and Greg have filled the gap in the mean time. If you have not yet been put off the Frolic 21, I will ask around and see what I an get for you. My gut feeling, based on no hard evidence, is that not a lot of Frolic steam launches have been built of late. Most of the active, keen, new build folk seem to be members of this Forum. Sent me a PM if you want to chase up the Frolic contacts here.
How about another idea? The strip plank launches that folk have mentiond in the UK fleet are very pretty, but I gatther that the amount of work to make the hull is considerable. An alternative might be the 21ft Compromise hull offered by Beckmann's Boatshop. It is a cruiser/canoe stern, but looks a very pretty shape to my eye. There is an article in Funnel from a few years back that reports the performance of Pauline, a boat using that hull and "tweaked" Stuart Turner Swan engine. If you don't have it in your current back stock of Funnels, again send me a PM and I will try to dig you out a copy.
Regards
Pete
Congratulations on that engine. You have done a good job with it.
Sorry for the slow reaponse, but I was glad to see that Gudmund and Greg have filled the gap in the mean time. If you have not yet been put off the Frolic 21, I will ask around and see what I an get for you. My gut feeling, based on no hard evidence, is that not a lot of Frolic steam launches have been built of late. Most of the active, keen, new build folk seem to be members of this Forum. Sent me a PM if you want to chase up the Frolic contacts here.
How about another idea? The strip plank launches that folk have mentiond in the UK fleet are very pretty, but I gatther that the amount of work to make the hull is considerable. An alternative might be the 21ft Compromise hull offered by Beckmann's Boatshop. It is a cruiser/canoe stern, but looks a very pretty shape to my eye. There is an article in Funnel from a few years back that reports the performance of Pauline, a boat using that hull and "tweaked" Stuart Turner Swan engine. If you don't have it in your current back stock of Funnels, again send me a PM and I will try to dig you out a copy.
Regards
Pete
- gondolier88
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
[quote="Kelly Anderson"]
I agree with your points on hull design, do you have recommendations on reasonably priced builders? I have designed just what I am after (22’ x 6’) in traditional plywood on frame with two chines (like Reciproca), and have been greeted with estimates of $20,000 for a bare hull (no deck)! That is what made the bare hull price of the Frolic attractive. It's possible that I could import a bare hull for $12,000 +/-. [quote]
That is a lot of money for a ply boat!!! I recommend Patterson Boatworks. They aren't the cheapest around, but for the money you do pay you get one of the best strip plank builders in the UK, on top of this, however, they are back to basics boatbuilders and happy to tackle a new plank on a clinker (lapstrake) hull as they are to build a 60ft twin engined mini superyacht!
While no one is wrong in saying that strip plank is labour intensive, it is a very simple way of building boats, it is easier than fitting out a GRP boat in wood- for one, joining wood to wood is far easier. That aside, basics like being able to install engine and boiler beds in the moulds before planking commences- doing away with templating and faying to planks- being able to fit any stringers and floors in the same manner too means you get a perfect hull first time. There are also a lot of great books on the strip process out there. Having worked on steel boats, carvel boats and in the process of restoring a clinker boat I would just love to have a set of moulds lined up on a strong back to put two planks on every day for a couple of months and end up with a boat at the end of it!!!! Not only that, but with strip hulls being the preserve of around 30-40% of all new build boats out there, there are literally hundreds of tools and handy gadgets out there to help you build a strip plank quicker and easier, but to be honest with 203,489 clamps precisely [slight exaggeration] and a good eye for the first two planks you can't go far wrong.
I'll get down off my soapbox now...
Greg
I agree with your points on hull design, do you have recommendations on reasonably priced builders? I have designed just what I am after (22’ x 6’) in traditional plywood on frame with two chines (like Reciproca), and have been greeted with estimates of $20,000 for a bare hull (no deck)! That is what made the bare hull price of the Frolic attractive. It's possible that I could import a bare hull for $12,000 +/-. [quote]
That is a lot of money for a ply boat!!! I recommend Patterson Boatworks. They aren't the cheapest around, but for the money you do pay you get one of the best strip plank builders in the UK, on top of this, however, they are back to basics boatbuilders and happy to tackle a new plank on a clinker (lapstrake) hull as they are to build a 60ft twin engined mini superyacht!
While no one is wrong in saying that strip plank is labour intensive, it is a very simple way of building boats, it is easier than fitting out a GRP boat in wood- for one, joining wood to wood is far easier. That aside, basics like being able to install engine and boiler beds in the moulds before planking commences- doing away with templating and faying to planks- being able to fit any stringers and floors in the same manner too means you get a perfect hull first time. There are also a lot of great books on the strip process out there. Having worked on steel boats, carvel boats and in the process of restoring a clinker boat I would just love to have a set of moulds lined up on a strong back to put two planks on every day for a couple of months and end up with a boat at the end of it!!!! Not only that, but with strip hulls being the preserve of around 30-40% of all new build boats out there, there are literally hundreds of tools and handy gadgets out there to help you build a strip plank quicker and easier, but to be honest with 203,489 clamps precisely [slight exaggeration] and a good eye for the first two planks you can't go far wrong.
I'll get down off my soapbox now...
Greg
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Re: Creative Frolic 21 Launch Questions
Is that a "strip planked" soapbox then Greg?
Retirement is about doing what floats your boat!
A BODGE : - A Bit Of Damn Good Engineering.
A BODGE : - A Bit Of Damn Good Engineering.