Nyitra I

Got a Steamboat? Then put a link and pictures in here and let us know about updates etc.
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Nyitra I

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:22 am

I'm going to be using Green Velvet(Sapon-A-Max 320 or Sapon-A-Med 680) for cylinder oil which what I use now in the stationary setup. I'm know that the exhaust with that kind of steam oil should look slightly milky(steam+oil emulsify a bit) if you catch some on a shovel but I've never tried putting that into a lake to see if it makes a sheen.

I am concerned about the environment, but this is a steam launch - so if it's on par with a 2 stroke gasoline outboard to have some or all of the exhaust go overboard under the water of over It doesn't bother me too much personally. I just don't want to get into trouble or have some non steamer authority make that kind of complaint/charge. I'll have many other things to worry about and I like to keep my bases covered as best I can.

No one directly answered that question. Sure if you send it up the stack I'm not worried about that.

If you exhaust overboard under or below the water, is that something I should worry about? Does it sheen?

-CB
User avatar
barts
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:08 am
Boat Name: Otter, Rainbow
Location: Lopez Island, WA and sometimes Menlo Park, CA
Contact:

Re: Nyitra I

Post by barts » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:31 am

cyberbadger wrote:
If you exhaust overboard under or below the water, is that something I should worry about? Does it sheen?

-CB
I've definitely seen sheen from steamboats running overboard exhausts... and I've seen sheen from old outboards, too. One drop of premix will leave a sheen on the water.
Displacement lubricators can dump a lot of oil if slightly out of adjustment.

Full-scale practice was to oil very sparely. From McAndrew's Hymn (http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mcandrew.htm):
Below there! Oiler! What's your wark? Ye find her runnin' hard?
Ye needn't swill the cap wi' oil - this isn't the Cunard.
Ye thought? Ye are not paid to think. Go, sweat that off again!
.

I've heard tell that synthetic gear oil (140 w) works well in condensing steam cars; I personally find the smell revolting so that's out.

- Bart
-------
Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
User avatar
DetroiTug
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Location: Northwest Detroit

Re: Nyitra I

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:56 am

There shouldn't be much visible oil in the exhaust water, if there is, there is too much oil being administered. If the condensate is milky looking that is way too much oil. Just starting up there may be a slug at first but while running over a period of time, the oil should be almost invisible. The idea here is to coat the inner surfaces of the engine with the tallow preferably and not have it running out the exhaust.

I typically use about a 1/2 pint in a full day of running ( I mistyped earlier, my lubricator is actually a half pint). I've noticed most of these old lubricators tend to work too good. On the Swift lubricators, the way to set them without over-oiling is open the left hand side steam valve and then the oil valve on the right just barely crack it off seat. If it's opened one turn etc, it will empty the oiler very quickly.

-Ron
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Nyitra I

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:13 am

barts wrote:I've definitely seen sheen from steamboats running overboard exhausts...
Thanks for that answer/input - that's what I was getting at. I'll have to mull it over and decide how to address it for my launch. I may end up doing some combination of a silencer and stack/funnel exhaust.
barts wrote:From McAndrew's Hymn
Huh, I guess things sometimes come in pairs. I've never read any Rudyard Kipling until this week. I found on an old post on a different steam related website from someone I'm familiar with at least online this one: http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_s ... chines.htm
barts wrote:I personally find the smell revolting so that's out.
Not sure about 140W synthetic, but I had to replace the half shafts on my 1992 Nissan Sentra - Got 70-80W gear oil in my hair. I kind of liked the smell. Different but Tap Magic cutting/tapping fluid - reminds my of a "synthetic" Christmas (Something in it, I dunno reminds me of a xmas tree). 3-in-1 oil reminds me of HO scale railroading when I was a kid.

-CB
Last edited by cyberbadger on Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Nyitra I

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:44 am

DetroiTug/Ron,
DetroiTug wrote:There shouldn't be much visible oil in the exhaust water, if there is, there is too much oil being administered. If the condensate is milky looking that is way too much oil. Just starting up there may be a slug at first but while running over a period of time, the oil should be almost invisible. The idea here is to coat the inner surfaces of the engine with the tallow preferably and not have it running out the exhaust.
Yeah, I was surprised to learn some folks steam boaters use plain oils. I guess it works in condensing steam where you can separate it - but regular oils will just be flushed out quickly by the steam.

I will take your advice into consideration. Some stationary and traction engine folks prefer it on the milky side because their engines are antiques and they want to be generous rather then stingy on the cylinder oil.

One of my candidate engines is a 1902 Toledo car engine. It's well over 100 years old, so I may have to be generous with the steam cylinder oil.....
DetroiTug wrote:On the Swift lubricators....
Thanks for that advice also - I have a genuine Swift. It's a half pint or a pint also that I have cleaned and restored. I haven't posted the pictures yet. But that will be the main steam cylinder oiler for the engine(s). :-P

-CB
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Ejector

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:02 am

I have a 1/2" penberthy ejector/jet pump. I bought it new from McMaster Carr a year or two ago, and tested it on my current boiler. It worked pretty well for pumping water.

I may or may not use it on the Nyitra I.

My concept for this was to use the ejector to move up water from fresh water/lake into a small tank onboard so I could check the water and make sure it was relatively clean and free of algae/junk whatever. And then the injectors could pull from that tank.
(Remember the Nyitra I - will have plenty of deck space)

The concept/reasoning for this was to protect the injectors and the boiler from algae/sand/mud/whatever.

-CB
Attachments
ejector2.png
1/2" new penberthy ejector.
ejector2.png (106.84 KiB) Viewed 11277 times
User avatar
DetroiTug
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Location: Northwest Detroit

Re: Nyitra I

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:18 pm

I use one of those for the bilge pump, it works really well. A nice feature of these if there is a valve on the exhaust side and the water intake gets clogged, the valve can be closed and steam will flush the intake strainer out. Much better than an electric bilge pump, but there needs to be steam to operate.

-Ron
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Steam Cylinder Lubricators

Post by cyberbadger » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:32 am

These are my lubricators:

1) A real Swift 1/2" NPT.

I bought it, and cleaned it made wooden handles that were missing, replaced the gaskets on the glass, and added a proper drain valve.
(Had to have a little help from my friend to drill/tap some of the brass parts where the wooden handles attach, the original attachments didn't make sense. I can drill and tap myself but these were very small and if I messed up I didn't know where I could get replacements so I called in my buddy to help me get it right the first time!)

I couldn't photograph the Stamping properly but it reads:

SWIFT LUBRICATOR Co.
ELMIRA,N.Y.

810386(Serial number I suspect)

It looks to be 1 pint. 12oz/355ml Ginger Ale can in the picture.

Haven't tried it under steam yet - but it's restored in my mind and ready to go.
swift.png
Swift Lubricator (Restored)
swift.png (118.53 KiB) Viewed 11240 times
2) Basic/Simple Hydrostatic oiler that came with the J. Winn engine I bought. I don't know if he made it, or it's something available in the UK among steamboaters.

I have used it under steam and have been satisfied with it.
hydrostatic-simple.png
J Winn Engine(England) Lubricator
hydrostatic-simple.png (114.25 KiB) Viewed 11240 times
-CB
User avatar
Lopez Mike
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1903
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Boat Name: S.L. Spiffy
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA

Re: Nyitra I

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:11 am

I have been experimenting with synthetic gear lube for internal lubrication. So far it seems to be working well. I use so little that it is hard to tell if it is separating in the hot well. I use a displacement lubricator and I leave it off much of the time. I probably consume 10cc per hour max when when I'm using it.

For general lubrication I have settled on chainsaw bar oil. Cheap, sticky, not bothered as much by moisture and I can get it everywhere. It's hard to imagine a tougher all environment than a chain saw bar.around
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Nyitra I

Post by cyberbadger » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:35 am

Mike,

For external/general lubrication I like the cut of your jib. I know small scale reciprocating steam isn't a big customer now days - but back in the day they possibilities were very limited. You used what you had, and bought what you could buy - what was available.

For steam cylinder lubrication for non condensing like on the the Nyitra I (cough, cough) - I'm going to be going with Green Velvet Sapon-A-Max 320.

Unless you can slaughter me a Cow/Pig Mike and render the Tallow/Lard and mix it up for me...

GreenVelvet is a small subsidiary or whatever business arrangement of Lubrication Specialties Co. - Largest mixer of lubricants on the West coast of the US.

http://www.steamenginelube.com/

http://www.lsc-online.com/

I also really like the support and honesty from the steamenginelube folks. I bought a Gallon of Sapon-A-Max 320 for my stationary boiler (125 Max PSI). I still have plenty left. But I looked at the specs and it said it was only good up to 160PSI. My new boiler is 200 PSI. I contacted them via email and within a day Bill replied.

Bill didn't tell me to throw out the steam cylinder oil or not use it and buy one they sell for a higher PSI - he thought about my application and replied that it should work the same and gave reasons why Sapon-A-Max 320 should be fine and why I didn't need the higher pressure one cylinder steam oil.

I like that kind of service and consideration at the small scale of a gallon of oil. You don't find that nowdays.....

Ask for Bill!

-CB
Post Reply