New member from Fife in scotland

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AlbaSteamFan
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New member from Fife in scotland

Post by AlbaSteamFan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:11 pm

Hello Ladies and Gentleman of the steamboat world,

I am embarking on a project to build a small wooden boat then power it via a steam converted 2 stroke engine from a lawnmower, hedge trimmer etc, probably using a bash valve arrangement. The boat itself I will be built with exterior ply, something flat bottomed and uncomplicated like a punt or mini skiff.

All materials are to be scavenged and bargained for where possible to keep costs at an absolute minimum (if I spend more than a hundred quid my mrs will shove the boat up my backside)

I have a few old two stroke engines I acquired recently so good start....

Anyone ever taken on a project like this before like to offer me the benefit of your experience?

Or (and now I'm pushing my luck I know) anyone local be interested in helping out with any aspects of the build?
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by Edward » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:51 pm

Dear AlbaSteamFan .

Welcome to the forum . One thing you can be almost certain about in the world of steam is that however sure you are that your latest idea is novel and unique someone somewhere sometime has thought of/done it before .
There are a lot of very knowledgeable people in this forum and several have converted I/C engines to steam so I'm sure you will get a lot of advice about that .
Concerning keeping costs to a minimum you will find you have something in common with most of us and it is not necessarily incompatible with producing a practical and usable steam boat , and very possibly a handsome one ( ALL boats are handsome to their builders however ugly others find them.)
There are several Scots in the forum and I'm sure they'll contact you .
A word of warning about using external quality plywood for a boat : I don't think it will last very well , there is a world of difference between marine ply and external quality ply , as is illustrated by the difference in prices ! Providing you realize this fine, go ahead with external ply and experiment but it would be a pity to put in several hundred hours of work and then find that your pride and joy only lasts a few months .
Until all the other replies flood in you can't go wrong by browsing through the various topics and threads , especially the FAQ .

All Regards Edward .
Last edited by Edward on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AlbaSteamFan
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by AlbaSteamFan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:10 pm

Been reading a few books about building small boats and a couple of authors suggested external ply should be ok if it's coated with a couple of epoxy spit coats before its painted. This appeals due to the price difference and the fact my bought will only be in water about ten to twenty days a year. Could lead to some real heartbreak down the line though if rot sets in.
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by fredrosse » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Many paths to getting a workable steamer, and we wish you well in this project. A few things you may consider:

A used fiberglass sailboat hull can make a reasonable steamer with very low cost and much less labor than building a new hull. A small sailboat, with broken mast or bad sails, will sell for a very low price. I purchased a 14 foot Oday Javelin sailboat, with trailer, for $107 on eBay, a USA purchase, but similar circumstances probably exist where you are located. Cut out the centerboard well with ordinary woodworking tools, and fiberglass in a new propeller shaft tube (made from ordinary 1-1/2 inch PVC water pipe), you have a reasonable hull for a small steamer. Details available if you want. There is a complete description of this build on the Yahoo Group "Electric Boats", look up the file "Building an Electric Javelin"

This Oday project was originally powered with a 3/4 horsepower electric arrangement, and we could cruise at about 5 MPH with 4 adults aboard. I am now in the process of changing this boat to relatively high horsepower steam propulsion, but it would also be ideal for a much smaller steam power plant.

2-stroke IC engine conversions can work well, bash valves also can be used with fairly good reliability. I built a steam engine from a 75cc chain saw engine, powered a 15 foot long "square stern" canoe, and this plant ran well, with about 1/2 horsepower output.

Then there is the boiler, a component that must be built well, with adequate safety provisions, probably the most difficult (and expensive) part of your project. What type of boiler, and fuel type, are you contemplating?
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Last edited by fredrosse on Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AlbaSteamFan
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by AlbaSteamFan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:42 am

fredrosse wrote:Many paths to getting a workable steamer, and we wish you well in this project. A few things you may consider:

A used fiberglass sailboat hull can make a reasonable steamer with very low cost and much less labor than building a new hull. A small sailboat, with broken mast or bad sails, will sell for a very low price. I purchased a 14 foot Oday Javelin sailboat, with trailer, for $107 on eBay, a USA purchase, but similar circumstances probably exist where you are located. Cut out the centerboard well with ordinary woodworking tools, and fiberglass in a new propeller shaft tube (made from ordinary 1-1/2 inch PVC water pipe), you have a reasonable hull for a small steamer. Details available if you want.

This Oday project was originally powered with a 3/4 horsepower electric arrangement, and we could cruise at about 5 MPH with 4 adults aboard. I am now in the process of changing this boat to relatively high horsepower steam propulsion, but it would also be ideal for a much smaller steam power plant.

2-stroke IC engine conversions can work well, bash valves also can be used with fairly good reliability. I built a steam engine from a 75cc chain saw engine, powered a 15 foot long "square stern" canoe, and this plant ran well, with about 1/2 horsepower output.

Then there is the boiler, a component that must be built well, with adequate safety provisions, probably the most difficult (and expensive) part of your project. What type of boiler, and fuel type, are you contemplating?
Had considered buying a hull but any coming up locally are out of budget. I'm pretty constrained financially as to what I can spend on the project however I have plenty of time to put into it!

I'm looking at using a fire extinguisher as a boiler sitting on top of a fabricated fire box. Looking to fuel it with wood because it's free (plenty trees around here). Also thinking of having a gas burner for those times I can't be bothered keeping a fire stoked.

I'm probably going to build the boat first before I start doing too much with the engine and boiler although I'm thinking a lot about it. I'm not sure wether to set it up the way you suggested taking a tube through the back or to try and bodge up some kind of steam outboard rig. Both arrangements have pros and cons. I like idea of being able to move the outboard arrangement to another boat easily although the inboard is definitely classier.
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by fredrosse » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:13 pm

Outboard steamers have been built, with boiler either mounted on the outboard itself, or with steam hose feeding from a boiler mounted in the boat. I have also seen a paddle boat (sidewheeler) that had the entire steam plant and paddlewheels which are lowered into, and clamped to the hull on a canoe sized vessel. Do you have access to machining facilities, and do you have experience with that kind of work (or a connection to someone who does)?

On one occasion I converted a 4-stroke mower engine to steam operation in one day, with only portable drills, some files and a hand hacksaw, plus simple mechanics' tools, it ran OK, but was very crude. The other side of the spectrum in homemade engines can progress to hundreds of hours work with precision machine tools.
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by AlbaSteamFan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:15 pm

fredrosse wrote:Outboard steamers have been built, with boiler either mounted on the outboard itself, or with steam hose feeding from a boiler mounted in the boat. I have also seen a paddle boat (sidewheeler) that had the entire steam plant and paddlewheels which are lowered into, and clamped to the hull on a canoe sized vessel. Do you have access to machining facilities, and do you have experience with that kind of work (or a connection to someone who does)?

On one occasion I converted a 4-stroke mower engine to steam operation in one day, with only portable drills, some files and a hand hacksaw, plus simple mechanics' tools, it ran OK, but was very crude. The other side of the spectrum in homemade engines can progress to hundreds of hours work with precision machine tools.
Got a wee bit basic mechanical experience and some knowledge. Have some basic tools, grinder, hand tools, drill, jigsaw etc but as I don't own welding equipment (although I have done a bit of welding in my time) Id probably take bits like that to a friendly mechanic I know who will be happy enough to do a bit of fabrication for a small fee.

Ideally if I go outboard I will have my boiler mounted on the deck with a steam hose hooked up. Originally I had planned to fab a simple boiler with an old fire extinguisher tested at high psi but this idea has been met with much derision on other threads as being extremely dangerous. I'm now thinking of ways to improve that concept or buy a boiler in from somewhere (if I can find anything to fit my tiny budget)
AlbaSteamFan
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by AlbaSteamFan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:30 pm

fredrosse wrote:Many paths to getting a workable steamer, and we wish you well in this project. A few things you may consider:

A used fiberglass sailboat hull can make a reasonable steamer with very low cost and much less labor than building a new hull. A small sailboat, with broken mast or bad sails, will sell for a very low price. I purchased a 14 foot Oday Javelin sailboat, with trailer, for $107 on eBay, a USA purchase, but similar circumstances probably exist where you are located. Cut out the centerboard well with ordinary woodworking tools, and fiberglass in a new propeller shaft tube (made from ordinary 1-1/2 inch PVC water pipe), you have a reasonable hull for a small steamer. Details available if you want.

This Oday project was originally powered with a 3/4 horsepower electric arrangement, and we could cruise at about 5 MPH with 4 adults aboard. I am now in the process of changing this boat to relatively high horsepower steam propulsion, but it would also be ideal for a much smaller steam power plant.

2-stroke IC engine conversions can work well, bash valves also can be used with fairly good reliability. I built a steam engine from a 75cc chain saw engine, powered a 15 foot long "square stern" canoe, and this plant ran well, with about 1/2 horsepower output.

Then there is the boiler, a component that must be built well, with adequate safety provisions, probably the most difficult (and expensive) part of your project. What type of boiler, and fuel type, are you contemplating?
Forgot to say earlier, I'm so jealous you managed to get such a nice boat so cheaply with a trailer! UK seems so much more expensive for used boats, as with pretty much everything else.
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by jimb » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:38 pm

A used fiberglass sailboat hull can make a reasonable steamer with very low cost and much less labor than building a new hull. A small sailboat, with broken mast or bad sails, will sell for a very low price. I purchased a 14 foot Oday Javelin sailboat, with trailer, for $107 on eBay, a USA purchase, but similar circumstances probably exist where you are located. Cut out the centerboard well with ordinary woodworking tools, and fiberglass in a new propeller shaft tube (made from ordinary 1-1/2 inch PVC water pipe), you have a reasonable hull for a small steamer. Details available if you want.

Hi Fred, a great practical idea. I toy with having a small boat ( very practical here in S Arizona, dont you think) and when a person adds up the cost of paying retail, new for all the items needed for steam it is a real cold water on the kittys experience.

I would like to hear more about a steam/ IC conversion engine. Also learning about the rather simple solution of pvc pipe and glassing in the bottom of an old hull is a revelation. There is a lot I have NO clue about. :shock:
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Re: New member from Fife in scotland

Post by PeteThePen1 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:16 pm

Hi and a belated welcome to the Forum

Just found and read through the posts.

A couple of thoughts have leapt out and here they are:

1. A 5 litre can of boat building standard resin will set you back nearly £100. If you think of the amount you need for a couple of coats on low quality ply, it might make sense to go straight to marine ply. I have tried the cheap resin and it has given me loads of trouble.

2. Small sailing boats such as the GP 14 can be found, but often not advertised. They will be found neglected and mouldering in sailing club boat parks and the like. You need to do some tours to find these places, then ask around for the name of the owner. (Steamboating Magazine has a series of articles on building Maid of Scrap by Chris Doughty that outlines that route - http://www.steamboating.org/ISS/ISShome.html

3. Did I misread or did you say something about using a fire extinguisher as a boiler? If that was the case, please could I advise you to think again. If you want a low cost small boiler then think about a monotube. SBA member Mike Robinson has designed a very neat monotube boiler for his canoe Taniwha which meets all the requirements of the SBA boiler testing regime. If you join the SBA you can get access to all this sort of information, though I am sure that there will be more than one person on this Forum with a safe small monotube design.

4. Do think about what it is you are interested in doing. Is it the building or the boating? If it is the latter, then keep an eye on the SBA small ads, join the Association and ask around. There are not many boats for sale just now but the Recession has knocked the bottom out of the market so they are usually being offered at silly (cheap) prices well below what it would cost you to build. It might also be sensible to try to bring your nearest and dearest 'on board' so to speak. As the others will tell you family support is so much better than family opposition!

Sorry, 'two' just grew a bit. Anyway, hope you enjoy the Forum and get to find answers to your questions.

Regards

Pete
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