The Steamboating Forum

A Forum for the discussion of Steam Boats
It is currently Sat May 26, 2018 10:14 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Panatela
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:35 pm 
Offline
Anne from Little Britan
Anne from Little Britan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 232
Location: Roseville, MN
Posted on behalf of piet:

piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: Panatela
The building of Panatela.
A lot of pictures. For the moment only in Dutch.http://members.chello.nl/p.schuurs/
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject:
Looks very familiar!


Dave


Steam Launch "Rushforth".

http://www.thesteamboatingforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=39
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:03 am Post subject:
Yes Dave,
Il think they are from the same drawing. Whish ours looks the same as your Rushforth when she is finished.
You've done a nice yob, ours is just started.
But it is a fine looking boat and funt to build.
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the kind comments!

I redrew and lofted my boat from lines for 4'6" I increased the beam to 5' to add stability. she goes well.

Keep your weight a bit forward on the Panatella's. They tend to ride bow high with just one in the stern.


Dave
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject:
Nicely done, the pictures look much better that the thumbnails. Oh and that rudder will turn that boat with ease. No worries!

Dave
Back to top


87gn@tahoe
Full Ahead


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 148
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject:
beautiful....

I've always liked the styling.

Funny you should mention them tending towards being "nose up"...

Peter Moale swapped out his steam plant for a volkwagon diesel engine, now she's REALLY "nose up", like a couple feet out of the water "nose up"
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:08 am Post subject:
Thank you all for the nice words. In a few weeks she has her paint dress on. Than a turn her over and put her on the trailer. I want to mount the prop and shaft and let her flote to see how she trims.
Than I now, by the way of moveble balast, me and mi frend, where the engine and boiler must be mounted.
I make shore that she trims a little bit down in the bow.
And Dave whats the pitch of the propellor on your Rushforth?
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject:
I'm turning a 16 x 18 pitch 3 blade.

with a 1.5 x 3.0 x 2.5" ,....just a bit smaller than your engine.

I turn about 550 rpm...best I can figure, but I have not measured it yet.

I would pitch up from mine a bit.


Dave
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:39 am Post subject:
Thank you for the info Dave.
I have a 14X20 prop, so that must be about right.
Also a three blade.
If not, the prop supplier can warm her up and set her to 26" max.
The do that regulary whit professional propellors.
Take care Piet
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:08 am Post subject:
Dave good morning. Over here in Europe its already evening. Dave I have an ather question,
How big is your feedwatertank.
Iám thinking to make it about 100liters, thats about 25 gallons, American. Do you think, in your experiance, thats good?
Piet.
Back to top


barts
Lighting the Boiler


Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:41 am Post subject:
piet wrote:
Dave good morning. Over here in Europe its already evening. Dave I have an ather question,
How big is your feedwatertank.
Iám thinking to make it about 100liters, thats about 25 gallons, American. Do you think, in your experiance, thats good?
Piet.


If you're using a condenser, that should be ample water. If you're not condensing, then you can go through 100 liters in just a couple of hours.

We condense on Otter, and the 40 liters we carry will last for a weekend of steaming, even with an (efficient) steam atomizing oil burner. Otter's engine is smaller, and we don't use steam for forcing the draft.

- Bart
_________________
-------------------
Bart Smaalders
S.L Otter
Menlo Park, CA
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:17 am Post subject:
Hi Piet,

My bow tank is 8 gallons, and running non-condensing, I can get about two to three hours from that.
Once I get my condensor and wet air pump sorted out, I think that will be plenty of make up for Rushforth.

You may want something just a bit bigger, but I think 25 gallons might be a bit large unless your on salt water and as Bart states your not going to condense.


Are you running condensing?

Dave
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject:
Thanks for comments guys.
At the moment Iám running notthing, but I want to make a keelcondenser. I dont have a wet airpomp yet, but I have stil a few months.
As an tank I planned to put a rubber, and flexible drinking watertank in the bow. Its a spare of mine sailingboat. 25 gallons big. But I also can fill it half.
Its big anough, thats wat I wanted to know.
Mine engine is 120 years old, it sames to be in an good condition, but I think It wil use a lot of steam. We shell see. Do you guys have suggestions about a airpomp?
Thanks Piet
Back to top


barts
Lighting the Boiler


Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject:
piet wrote:
Thanks for comments guys.
At the moment Iám running notthing, but I want to make a keelcondenser. I dont have a wet airpomp yet, but I have stil a few months.
As an tank I planned to put a rubber, and flexible drinking watertank in the bow. Its a spare of mine sailingboat. 25 gallons big. But I also can fill it half.
Its big anough, thats wat I wanted to know.
Mine engine is 120 years old, it sames to be in an good condition, but I think It wil use a lot of steam. We shell see. Do you guys have suggestions about a airpomp?
Thanks Piet


Well, the simplest air pump is none at all... Otter doesn't use one; the exhaust pressure on a single running thirty to fifty percent cut-off is plenty to force the condensate back into the hotwell. It might be more efficient to have one, but simplicity has it's own attractions...

Otter has a float and valve in the hotwell; this unloads the feed pump when the hotwell is low, returning the water back into the hotwell. This means that the operator only needs to monitor the boiler water level; when it gets low he simply introduces more water. I do so by diverting the pump suction from the hotwell (via a three way valve) to the fresh water tank for twenty seconds or so. This is repeated very 10 or 15 minutes, aside from handling the tiller and adding oil occasionally this is all I have to do once the boiler is warmed up. I occasionally get distracted and leave the feed switched too long to the tank; this overfills the hotwell and the boiler, necessitating blowing down some of the water in the boiler; I'm considering spring-loading the valve to have it return to the hotwell suction position automatically.
_________________
-------------------
Bart Smaalders
S.L Otter
Menlo Park, CA
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject:
Bart gives sage advice.....

If your a masochist ....like me....you run a wet air pump...

I run it because Im an engineer...and its a fatal disease

I have some ratio's that are used as a rule, but the big thing is how much air is going to get into your condenser?

If you have a lot of packing glands exposed to the condensor, you will want a bigger pump.....less and you can run a smaller one.

I have tried to keep the glands down to a minimum....like one.

The LP rod gland only

I'll dig them out and post......there around here somewhere

Dave


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: Wet air pump sizing
Hi Piet,

Check out the attachment on the email I sent you...I can't link it here

Page 385 of the book. "A Maunual of Marine Engineering" by Seaton
Charles Griffin and Company

The air pump volume of an engine driven air pump should be LP volume /21 to a LP Volume /25

I found another reference by Seaton and it gives a similar ratio of .04 x LP volume or LP volume /25 (Page 159 of the book linked below)

http://www.archive.org/stream/apocketbo ... 5/mode/1up

This is consistent with designs by Whitney as published in Mitchels "Steamboats"

It's also consistent with my pump which comes in around LP Volume /19...I am betting my pump is not as efficient and that the air leaks are larger than full size practice.......time will tell

Dave
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:43 am Post subject:
Again....thanks, Dave and Barts.
But my engine is an compound 1,5+3X3,5.
Iám reading everywere that its better to run an compound whit an airpomp. So, if I get you guys, try it firts without an pomp?
I was thinking about an Jabsco pomp, the one whit the rubber impellor, connected to the propellorshaft. But it is only working in one direction. So that can be an probleme.
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:50 am Post subject:
DAVE, THANK YOU FOR THE LINK.
VERY USEFULL
Back to top


barts
Lighting the Boiler


Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject:
piet wrote:
Again....thanks, Dave and Barts.
But my engine is an compound 1,5+3X3,5.
Iám reading everywere that its better to run an compound whit an airpomp. So, if I get you guys, try it firts without an pomp?
I was thinking about an Jabsco pomp, the one whit the rubber impellor, connected to the propellorshaft. But it is only working in one direction. So that can be an probleme.


Well, if you run w/ a Jabsco, make sure it will handle being spun backwards, if not, using one of those clever little Torrington roller clutches. I'd also fit a check valve allowing the pump to be bypassed if the condenser is under pressure.

I've also seen an article on using a automotive mechanical fuel pump as an air pump somewhere...

- Bart
_________________
-------------------
Bart Smaalders
S.L Otter
Menlo Park, CA
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject:
Hi Barts,
Thank you fot the tip of the clutch and checkvave.
I'll go to look for it.
Piet
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject:
Piet,

Sent an email, but apparently it bounced, acording to my security software.

Did you get the google book via email from me?

Dave
Back to top


piet
Just Starting Out


Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:45 am Post subject:
No Dave
I've not received an e-mail from you.
I just used the link in the forum, and thats an great link. But please try it again Iám very curius.
Piet
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject:
Still having trouble....the file is big too...37 Mb

That is probably the problem

Working on it....give me a bit of time

Dave

Back to top


DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject:
For big file transfer, I just upload them to wikiupload, then send the recipient a link to it. They allow files up to a few gig seem to recall.

Ron
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:
Thanks Detroit!
I'll look into that.


Dave
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject:
Hi Detroit,
I went to that site and my spyware went nuts....did not like it and it wanted me to log in with an address other than my country......


Seems like a scam I am afraid.......Piet....I'll have to try something else.

Dave
Back to top


DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject:
This site?

http://www.wikiupload.com/


I have a McAfee suite up to date and run malwarebytes plus Superantispyware, and I go to it, no trouble at all.

You must have went to some mirror site??

Some of this protection software is getting bad about being too careful with false positives. That is a very popular and trusted site.

-Ron
Back to top


mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:12 am Post subject:
Hi Ron,

Yea thats the site....says I can only come from Zimbabwe.....I don't know man.....smells fishy to me.......but thanks anyway


Dave
Back to top


Maltelec
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Cumbria, UK
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject:
www.rapidshare.com is another one to use
_________________
I've got the vehicle , just need the boat.
Back to top


DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject:
Dave, That is really weird, I go to it no trouble at all, and no I don't even live in Zimbabwe

Some of the sites in the UK posted on the forum here I can't get to as well. Malwarebytes just stops the browser???

Ron

mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject:
Hi Ron,

Who knows ...might of got hacked?

Thanks Maltec....I'll check link out!

Dave


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group