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 Post subject: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
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Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?

Dake Engine Co
Grand Haven, Mich.
Type: 3 1/2 SLS SPEC
HP: 7
RPM: 500
SERIAL NOL 49812

https://www.enginads.com/classifieds/sh ... 01/cat/all



-CB


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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:47 pm 
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http://muskegonheritage.org/Dake%20Engine%20description/Dake%20Engine%20page.html

square pistons never really caught on...

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
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Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA
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I would be quite happy to not have to rebuild one of these. The reasons that round cylinders have dominated reciprocating designs since the beginning are many but the ease of making and restoring round holes stands out to me.

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:10 am 
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Lopez Mike wrote:
I would be quite happy to not have to rebuild one of these. The reasons that round cylinders have dominated reciprocating designs since the beginning are many but the ease of making and restoring round holes stands out to me.



Much like Wankle engines - too simple - but complicated! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Rotary engines, with large sliding surfaces that are not cylindrical, and do not have the great benefit of cylindrical piston seals (piston rings), have been invented for hundreds of years. Virtually all have been failures in the technical sense, except some special applications where economy of operation and long service with good sealing are secondary considerations.

Yes, the Dake engine is "legit steam" for those applications where it found a small area of business, and the inner workings are indeed interesting. However I would take a Staffa motor over it any day in those applications.

I often wonder how the Mazda rotary IC engine managed to survive in automotive applications for as long as it has. Everyone tells me that the fuel consumption and emissions of these rotary IC engines is abysmal. Some hot-rod people race with them, but for ordinary automotive applications, does anyone know what might be their attraction, other than hype?


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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA
Boat Name: S.L. Folly
They are easily balanced with only one external rotating mass needed. There are some theoretical but as yet unrealized advantages in flame front control. The Ricardo squish band on all I.C. engines since perhaps 1928 provides turbulence that increases with the engine speed hence constant spark lead. All of the rotary engines I have seen are thermodynamic throwbacks.

But there have been no practical or theoretical breakthroughs in tip sealing. Also, even with the advent or computer controlled machine processes, the shapes are awkward to machine and, of course, impossible to restore in the field.

One forgets that, unless you embrace the current disease of throwaway technology, repairs that cannot be done by mechanics and local machine shops are not done. We here have chosen to use and build engines that are almost infinitely repairable.

This coming from a total snob. Now if I could just figure out how to remachine some of my knee joints and repair some of my mental wiring. . .

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
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Quote: "I often wonder how the Mazda rotary IC engine managed to survive in automotive applications for as long as it has."

Same here. There are a few benefits to the rotary engine design, smoother with better balance and higher RPM's, for people that like to see higher tachometer readings. But as mentioned, the fuel economy, poor emissions and poor longevity, it is amazing they ran in production as long as they did.

I think they appealed to a niche market sector that wanted something unique and believed there was some benefit. And they put it in a nice package, the RX-7 and 8 was an attractive sporty car. I knew people that owned them and they loved them. One trick to do about every 20k miles was mist a bit of Type F trans fluid in the intake, it rejuvenated the rotor seals.

I've read a few knowledgeable folks talking about them possibly making good candidates for steam engines.

One idea I had (me and probably a hundred others) for a steam version is make the rotor two piece and pressurize the core of the rotor and with the larger surface areas than the expansion chamber, it would aid in sealing against the side walls of the chamber - like a slide valve. Seems like it would work - not gonna try it :D It wouldn't work in an IC engine, but it would be possible with a steam engine where there is never any vacuum in the expansion chamber.

I've absolutely never understood the square piston design. What possible advantage could there be or they thought there could be?

-Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:36 pm 
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One helluva lot of them over here in the UK had Ford V4s transplanted/shoehorned in once the seals gave out.

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:00 pm 
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The ubiquitous Chevy 350 and ls engines have replaced many a dead wanker over here

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 Post subject: Re: 7HP Square Cylinder Dake? - Is this legit steam?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
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I contacted the seller who wasn't able to tell me if it had any reversing mechanism.

If it did it would make for an interesting launch engine, but it doesn't appear to.

He said it's 500lbs in weight, but that was an estimate.

-CB


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